> Nick previously said:In a civil society, dmb, the free market includes the > exchange of intellectual ideas. Nobody forces you to talk and > think. It is about non-coercive economic and intellectual > exchange. Anything else is an advocation for initiation of > physical coercion and is anti-liberty. > > > dmb says: > Nick, I think your views are entirely bogus and only serve as a > time-wasting distraction. Try walking out of the bookstore without > paying for the book and you'll quickly discover the government's > monopoly on legitimate violence.
Nick: That's against the natural law of property rights dmb. Non-sequitur dmb: > You'll be forced to lay on the > ground at gunpoint, handcuffed and carted off to jail. Is that what > you mean by non-coercive economic and intellectual exchange? Nick: That's a criminal that stole the book. Against property rights to steal. non-sequitur dmb: > Haven't you ever heard the saying that property is nine tenths of > the law? That means, my paranoid friend, that 90% of the laws > protect stuff, not people. That means, my ignorant friend, that the > cops and armies work for property owners. They serve the rights of > property, not human rights. Nick: If you read any of the posts in the discussion you would know that I'm talking about natural law and that includes, the rights of liberty, life (person), and property. It's all minimizing conflict. dmb: > Is overt violence the only form of coercion you find objectionable? > What if a person is forced by other pressures like starvation, > sickness, or fear of humiliation? Nick: They can find food, get medicine, and fear? That last one nobody can do about. They need to get their own courage. How is this person going to get their food and medicine? It's not hard to ask somebody for help. Compassion is a virtue. This needs context dmb. dmb: > What about the other forms of > power in our society? The largest corporations, for example, have > more guns and more money than many countries. Nick: What corporation initiates physical coercion? Be specific. dmb: > Since we also depend > on them for employment and the economy's overall health, they wield > far more direct power over our day to day lives than does > government. Nick: No business that I know of initiates physical coercion upon the person. You can quit your job and get another. It's government actions that create poverty by taxing. dmb: > Adam Smith himself would be horrified at the unchecked > power of corporations of today. Nick: Adam Smith isn't about liberty. dmb: > And, as if one could fail to notice, the current economic meltdown is the > result of free-market > deregulation. Nick: Nope. This is due to government regulation of the market. It's called Keynesian economics. It is logical positivist economics. It's their social planning by injecting billions of dollars in the market, and by propping up malinvestment firms that has cause this crisis. It's the governments own doing. Bubbles in the economy are government created by one main factor, but not the only factor. By artificially manipulating interest rates. They do two socialists activities that are not to happen artifically: 1- they create money out of thin air which brings easy credit to the economy when the economy is clearly demanding to save. This is why consumers aren't buying. They are saving. Saving is good. Anybody that had good parents knows to save and not continue to use credit while in debt is not good for the economy. 2- they artificially force interest rates up and down against the market's actual supply and demand. It's called poor economic planning and poor economic education. They don't notice value. It's socialism that economically plans the free market and this government has been economically planning the market for over 50 years now. The free market is not economically planned. It happens spontaneously. dmb, you need to read up on some economics before you try to debate somebody that knows economics. dmb: > If you want to join one of those right-wing militia units I'm sure > they'd be glad to have you and you'll find that every ear is > sympathetic to your paranoid delusions. Better keep that Hallmark > style poetry to yourself, however, if you want to avoid physical > coercion. Nick: You see I'm for liberty and I get labeled a right-wing militia. I'm for no initiation of coercion and you think I'm paranoid. So in other words, I love peace and you call me delusional. dmb, you got it all backwards, but you're anti-liberty anyways. So I'm talking to dmb, the murderous criminal, I guess. Nick -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
