hiya john, i am enjoying your posts, that guy sounds okay to me...he is obviously into quality - his work - and that is the central point and the central reality. if you concentrate there then your efforts may bear juicy fruit. there is no point enjoining a polemical discussion with him(action - reaction), let him have his emotional bursts, he will start to correct himself if you do not react. i think your koan could grow from the sheetrocking, from the quality he directly experiences here. thanks gav
--- On Sun, 28/6/09, John Carl <[email protected]> wrote: > From: John Carl <[email protected]> > Subject: [MD] Wranglin' with Rigel > To: [email protected] > Received: Sunday, 28 June, 2009, 2:51 AM > So lately I've been helping a > neighbor/friend with a little sheetrocking in > the morning. He needs a hand hanging the lid. > > > He's an interesting guy. A retired attorney of around > my age (50ish) who > has been living here on the Ridge for about 10 years. > A relative newcomer > to most of the folks around here, but a hard charging kind > of guy who is > real involved as a community leader - on the county > planning commission, > hosted politcal klatsches for a supervisor candidate (who > won) and his wife > is the head of the school board where his and my son > attend. We carpool a > lot, through the yuba canyon. > > > So we had them for dinner a month or so back, I'd told him > about ZAMM, he > likes to discuss ideas and so he took it, read it, > and I asked him about it > first day at work. > > > He didn't like it. Said it was full of crap he'd > heard before. So I asked, > "You actually read the whole thing?" He didn't really > answer me then but > instead launched into a tirade about the reality of > gravity. So I figure > he must have gotten stuck at that point, but the fact that > he couldn't just > admit that he rejected a book that he hadn't had the > gumption to finish was > kinda weird and as later clues came together I understood > that there is this > attorney-training thing happening in argumentation that is > all about the > win, baby. They never concede a point and if any > niggling misconstruation > is possible, they vehemently deny and oppress any point > you're making as > well. > > > It can be a disconcerting style to deal with, to say the > least. > > > Other similarities between my friend and Rigel, besides the > community leader > and being attorneys, was the stiff morality. For > those who observe a strict > victorian morality there seems to be an intensely emotional > attachment to > "what they believe". In the middle of a rational > discussion, he'd have to > stop and beg me to stop what we are doing (working on his > project) so that > he could vehemently make his points. Usually points about > free markets, > immorality of socialism, immorality of modernism and so > forth. He's a > religious man, but has doubts about the bible. He > didn't want to discuss > religion, but used the philosophy gained from a lifetime > exposure (his folks > were missionaries) to religion and the bible to > justify "his" world view. > When I pointed out that the self was an intellectual > construct, he went > ballistic on me, but then later contradicted himself and > conceded that > point, sort of. > > > Afterwards, I thought about the captain's encounter with > Rigel and compared > our two experiences. I too felt helpless in the face > of SOMish certainty. > One difference is that that the Captain headed on down the > river and out of > Rigel's orbit forever. I went back to work the next > morning and morn after > that and all next week and I'll be carpooling and neighbors > forever. I have > some potential in the continuity of the relationship to get > through to this > guy. But how? > > > How does a budding bodhisattva construct a koan for a > Rigelian sheetrocker? > I must admit, he's the best sheetrock cutter I've ever > worked with. The > house we're working on has many complicated angles and > light fixtures. He > takes great pride in getting every single joint and cuttout > exact. Unlike > the normal sheetrocker who cuts around outlets a little > large, he cuts them > out a little small so that he can fine tune with his > keyhole saw on > installation. He admits he is working to impress the > tapers. But of course > who he's really working for is to impress himself. > I've known a lot of > tapers and they're not usually the kind of guys who's > approval would raise > anyone's status. Still, there is a craft involved in > getting all the lines > perfect. I don't call it art, but its something. > > > Transferring the MoQ. That is the issue, eh? > How? And maybe, why? Is it > my own egoistic desire to "convert" that is at the heart of > my concern? Am > I trying to impress the kind of guy who's approval would > raise my status? > Or am I striving to liberate a sentient being from samsara > and lead them to > enlightenment? > > > If I choose, I choose the latter. But now we are back > to the how. How to > construct a koan. How to lead out in a > dialogue. How to deal with > self-satisfied SOM. An ongoing challenge. > > -- > ------------ > Doing Good IS Being > ------------ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. 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