[Ham] That's like saying a sensation is a byproduct of sensibility, or knowing is a byproduct of knowledge. Inasmuch as what we perceive encompasses value sensibility and the intellectual concepts drawn from experience, why not simply call the former "awareness" and the latter "precepts" and be done with it? You and James are "taking relatively simple stuff and erecting complex unintelligible verbiage out of it."
[Krimel] I really don't have the patience to sort through all of your issues, Ham. If Dave is stuck making arguments from the 1800s yours date from circa 1300. More happened to change human consciousness in the past century than in all of history before it. Regressing to the ideas of centuries past will not help us move into the future. [Ham] How can you discuss S/O seriously without talking about subjects? [Krimel] Because the distinction between subject and object is that one experiences internal state immediately. Objective states are felt secondarily or conceptually. The only subjective experiences I can have are mine. I am the ONLY subject from this metaphysical point of view. You are an object, external to me and any speculation about your internal states is no less external to me than speculation about the consciousness of a tree or an iron filing. The plural use of the word subject in SOM is unintelligible. [Ham] To cite the original cliché, be careful that you're not throwing the babe out with the bath water. Much of what you academicians dismiss as "supernatural" or "theistic" have a valid place in philosophy. Since all metaphysical theory is in some sense speculative you are denying yourself an opportunity to resolve the enigma of existence by rejecting it. [Krimel] I am not an academician but I do reject those terms as fit only for fantasy and fiction. Speculation without the possibility of resolution is just mental masturbation. Certainly philosophy includes a lot of that, apparently you can get a degree in it from Colorado. [Ham] We did the same until a couple of years ago when the township ran out of money to put on such displays. Now we watch them from New York or Philly on hi-def TV. I hear they're renaming this holiday "Dependents' Day" in honor of the Obamanation. Now, there's a statement that's sure to bring on the fireworks! [Krimel] So you live in a place so befuddled by the Raygun revolution that you can't even raise taxes to celebrate national holidays. That is sad. If everyone in your town can afford HDTV's sufficient to make watching fireworks meaningful, I would think you could jack your millage rate a fraction of a percent and celebrate like real Americans. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
