Ron to Ian: If you think this is fun discourse, than Ian, have fun. I find it frustrating and perhaps a break is required for me. I simply derive no joy from the experience of the discuss at the moment. gumption trap time to walk away for a bit and come back with a fresh eye
Andre: Hi Ron, it's funny but I have been thinking the same thing. The gumption I got from reading ZMM and Lila, and tried to pass on (and also see reflected) here on this discuss, I find difficult to see and feel. I liken it to Poincarre's question about why it should be that only a handfull of scientists should understand reality... and Pirsig saying that every six-year old knows about reality. Itseems to me that some members on this discuss assume a priviledged position in terms of knowing exactly what Pirsig is on about , stretching their mouths to let those big words come right out in terms of substantiating their claims and leaving some of us young-mere-mortals diving for cover. I will not grow old enough to go through every philosophical work which could possibly have a bearing on the MoQ. And then, of course know it well enough to understand it and then taking the next step and be creative/original with it and applying it. I'd like that gumption back. And must honestly tell you that part of it is back through Bodvar's previous post to Ian (intellect is supposed to be a MoQ pattern!). Now, some may not agree with this (and its implications) but it makes a load of sense to me and I am still reeling from it. It has put me back in touch with the gumption (and associated understanding) I had which drew me to this forum in the first place. Mati asked the question: 'What is Real?' and nearly everyone arguing it is all concepts, you and I and the flamin' lot, all concepts and the more you talk about quality experiences the farther it recedes. I have to stop because I can go on and on and start repeating myself. We, as patterns of quality, are as real as Quality (as a noun). Rock solid..which is funny when you think that rock solid (SOM) objects are now reduced to figments of our imagination. The bombs on Japan were not illusory, Phaedrus was convinced of this and left India because of it. No use arguing against it. Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
