Platt, Andre, All 20 Nov:
Platt: > To be precise, all concepts such as "time" and explanatory dimensions" > are intellectual PoV. Which brings to mind Bo's idea that the MOQ is > transconceptual and therefore timeless, which fits with Quality being > outside definition. Maybe we're getting somewhere after all. Many of the issues raised has been discussed before (and consensus arrived at?) and resides somewhere in the archives. Had it only been searchable in the sense of printing "time in a MOQ context" bringing up the relevant posts, but alas the "subject line" system is totally out of tune. Anyway, I don't think "concepts" (mental patterns expressed by language) are intellectual patterns per se. Ancient people surely had language and expressed many complicated ideas about their "social level" existence and "time" was more than anything part of their mythologies. . However "explanatory dimensions" - if you mean time as a dimension along with the spatial ones - clearly smack of intellects objectivisation. Andre: > This is interesting Platt. Before I respond,( I haven't had 'time' to > respond to Bodvar's post yet) can you tell me what you mean by 'the > MoQ' being 'transconceptual'? I thought Pirsig was quite clear when he > said that the MoQ is a static intellectual PoV ( or does your > 'transconceptual' say something important about the intellectual level > as well)? I think Platt means that the MOQ started as an intellectual patterns (as a SOM document as Platt once said) but then "took off on a purpose of its own". Even if the MOQ is no static level there is a level-like relationship between the 4th. level and the MOQ. In its SOM role intellect knew nothing about its Q-role (no level knows the Q-context) but having reached the MOQ we may return to the "land of statics" and see intellect's S/O value as the highest, yet not being fooled by its seemingly valueless outlook, nor letting it crush social value to the point of creating "social nightmares". . Now, what is "time" in a MOQ context, except being an intellectual "explanatory dimension" pattern? I think Andre asked in some other post what "Love" is and Platt has earlier referred to "Beauty" as an alternative to Quality, and generally there have been many suggestions of concepts that doesn't fit SOM's matrix. And as usual I say that Quality is the mother of them all, there's no time or beauty or anything without attributes without qualities. Thus a "Time Metaphysics" (MOT) is possible, dynamic and static time, static inorganic time, static biological time ... etc. but Quality is best. Bodvar ....... Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
