On Dec 6, 2009, at 10:38:38 PM, "Ham Priday" <[email protected]> wrote: On 12/6/09 6:31 PM, "Joseph Maurer" <[email protected]> wrote:
> DQ/SQ Imho this is the great contribution Pirsig has made with > his emphasis on Quality. Undefined Quality DQ is not the same > as a non-existent quality, or quantified, localized, or objectively > observed entity. Substitute Love for Consciousness (sensibility). > Will you acknowledge the absence of "quantified, localized, or > objectively observed" does not modify love (consciousness) > sufficiently to eliminate it? I suspect you may be confused by my terminology. "Reality" in my vernacular connotes what REALLY (ultimately) IS. "Existence" is that which only appears to be, and 'existents' are the finite beings we experience. Certainly I'm not proposing to "eliminate" either love or consciousness. Nor do I deny that conscious feelings of love, compassion, admiration, and awe influence our behavior as human beings. I just don't categorize Value (Quality) or the emotional responses it engenders as 'existents'. Don't you see that by positing 'essents' as primary to existents I am actually raising human Sensibility above the existential (illusionary) level? Regards, Ham Hi Ham, I find it difficult to follow your contention that your perception of Reality raises it above the illusionary. What you describe is an idea. It is a system by which you understand Reality. I have no problem with your position that our awareness creates our awareness. I also understand that without such sensibility we could not perceive. Where I conflict with you is that such perception is only assumed by man. Through the principle of negation of essence, all existent things come into being. Where there was nothing there is now something. The interaction of our beings with what we perceive as other creates our self concept. This is analogous to a bubble only being in existence because of the water. The only thing that makes our negation important, is our personal sense of it. I can only see through my eyes, not yours. The mechanics or process by which this happens is not as important as the personal soul (so to speak). A computer negates which didn't exist by creating a picture on the screen. However, this is the sum total of it. Our awareness if this existence is that mechanical part. The values, emotions, desires, opinions are also part of the mechanics, that can be explained by simple biology. Our personal involvement with this mechanics is the only true negation. Now that personal "I" does not exist. In itself it is nothingness. Yes, when the body dies, our appreciation of reality through the senses disappears, but the underlying "I" does not. This is analogous to a bubble bursting at the surface of the water. The identity of the air disappears, but the air does not. The "I" is essence, it does not need to be a negate. Perhaps we are saying the same thing, I lose track. Mark Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
