Hi to you Mark 9 Dec.
> I suppose one could say that science discovered many things. > In reality, all science does is translate those things into a > way which the human intellect can understand. In fact things > are much more complex than our simple intellect can ever > comprehend. The need for comprehension simplifies the > vast flux. You are a well-meaning guy, but your take of the MOQ is off mark. Your "intellect" sounds more like SOM's mind which (by SOM's definition) contains incomplete shadows of an infinite complex reality "out there". This tendency to pull the MOQ back into the SOM takes two main forms. You represent the usual of a "vast flux" = DQ, and "intellect" the static filter that distributes it into inorganic, biological ... etc. Thus all levels are really "intellectual". e.g. in our minds. The other is the Quality/Concept which has certain a likeness to yours, namely that of putting things in words - systematizing, theorizing - is the "static" re-presentation of the "vast flux". Anyway both has nothing to do with the MOQ. > I can see how you say the intellect has no physical essence. > Ideas are ephemeral. Those ideas, however, originate from the > human brain, and can only be appreciated by such a brain. > This level is quite confined. I probably mislead you by speaking about "energy" being confined to the inorganic level. The MOQ does not really speak about energy in connection with the inorganic level, it just says that its patterns are "inorganic patterns of Quality" Full stop! Energy, particles, fields ...etc. is intellect's business > I studied inorganic biochemistry for a number of years. That is > biochemistry that does not have carbon. Enzyme active sites > and such. Organic refers to that having carbon, like diamond. > The separation of levels is indeed murky. The inorganic > level does indeed compose a lot (anything without carbon), > and indeed, the inorganic can be the result of the quantum level. The > quantum level has massless energy as its components. Again, the MOQ does not distinguish between energy and mass or has any "quantum" sub-level and the separation between dead matter and living things is "murky" only seen from intellect (science) the MOQ's levels are moral distinctions, and there is a point when biology (life) "takes off on a purpose of its own". That's the point. > All is energy until we get to societal and intellect, which are both > concepts of the human brain. God what have I done to deserve this? > I suppose it could be looked at like a pyramid with those things > displaying higher organization as being less in scope and importance to > the overall structure. Taking away SOM is a trick of the human brain. > It created it, it can take it away. The notion of killing all > intellectual patterns is one of reduction, not expansion. This would > explain why Quality would tend that way, simplicity. The human brain > creates intellect only to show that it is meaningless and take it away. If the human brain (I guess you mean the human mind) has created SOM (the mind/matter metaphysics) then it has created the MOQ as well, and we have a "human brain metaphysics". Oh shit you will not even understand the irony, forget it. I spoke to John about the MOQ requiring centuries for people beginning to understand ... see you in "2209. Bodvar > Cheers, > Mark > > On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:31:17 AM, [email protected] wrote: > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MD] CO2 and Climate. > Date: December 8, 2009 1:31:17 AM PST > To: [email protected] > Hello Mark > > 7 Dec. you wrote: > > > Oxygen goes in, CO2 comes out. It is an endless cycle. One > > could say that Quality is personified in humans as that > > electromotive force. > > Right, this is photosynthesis, the basic biological process where > plants uses sunlight to grow, but I don't mix Quality into this, it > merely organizes existence the known levelish way, it's intellect - > science - that speaks about the carbon dioxide and oxygen > interaction. But interesting it is!. > > > The waterfall of electrons going from the reduced to the oxidized. > > Oxygen is the final electron acceptor, making CO2 and water for the > > most part. That is certainly where we get our energy. It is > > impossible to stop that cycle, it was here before man. Matter gets > > full of electrons, we use those electrons (in a truly electronic > > way) to run. Each day we generate the current of an average > > refrigerator. This usage extends beyond our bodies to those things > > we use. It is just an extension of our being. > > Intellect (science) that has discovered all these inorganic > interactions and their use by living things is just remarkable. One > thing though, I spoke about the atmosphere's composition, do you know > if moisture - water vapor - is counted as part of it? I so IT must be > the one big climate factor and not the diminutive CO2 part. > > > If I were once again to invoke Quality, any building of levels > > requires such energy. The more the energy, the higher the Quality. > > Energy is limited to the inorganic level, when it comes to MOQ's > biological level the various organism's energy conversions are still > inorganic. Do you understand? In our bodie's exploiting food's energy > the exploitation part is biological value while the energy part is > (still) inorganic value. The inorganic level is the base of all > levels, yet the upper levels are not a continuation of its "energy". > Q-biology is that of having "cowed" the inorganic level into serving > its own purpose. Yours about everything being an energy evolution is > intellect's OBJECTIVE view, the highest yet subordinated the DQ/SQ > scheme.. > > > If one gets out of this need to save the human race, and takes the > > ride for what it was meant, then Quality is served. Any movement > > requires energy. Without it everything is stopped still. > > This is just saying what I said above, namely that all levels have > the inorganic level as their fundament. > > Bodvar > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:51:10 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > From: [email protected] > > Subject: [MD] CO2 and Climate. > > Date: December 7, 2009 12:51:10 AM PST > > To: [email protected] > > Hi Arlo > > > > 3 Dec. you spoke:: > > > > > Arlo gave a valid, historical example of "environmentalism" acting > > > "coercively" to regulate and restrict business practices that led > > > to a river being so polluted it caught on fire. How is that > > > "demonizing"? Mark said there is no such thing as "reasonable" > > > environmentalism, I contend there is, and that this is but one > > > fine example. > > > > Right, I did not read your post attentively enough to catch the > > ironic points. > > > > > Arlo wonders if you read any of his posts, of just skim for areas > > > you think you can post some disagreement about? Because if you had > > > read his posts, you would see that Arlo holds little sympathy for > > > "doomsayers". But he also holds little sympathy for those who > > > blindly demonize any and all environmental coner siderations. > > > > Risking not to have understood your subtleties, it's the > > environmentalist unholy alliance with climatists which is my point. > > I don't deny that there may be some temperature fluctuation afoot - > > our november this far north has been rather mild - not since > > eighteen.. something the meterorologists say. Well, then it was > > just as warm before any man-made CO2! > > > > Another thing. The doomsayers makes it sound as if CO2 now fills > > the air and the gullible populace swallow it, but the fact is that > > the atmosphere composition is remarkable stable, the nitrogen part > > 78%, oxygen 21% and CO2 a feeble 0,030 plus some rarer gases. How > > can this insignificant part play such a huge role? No. there's > > something rotten here. > > > > > Arlo has said repeatedly, the truth is somewhere inbetween, but is > > > tired of the idiotic Holy War whose only goal is to blindly > > > advance an ideological view rather than discuss real concerns > > > (just as with "PC"). As for sounding like "Jehovah's Witnesses", > > > those who insist there is a global, one-world conspiracy afoot, > > > where "the academy, media, government and entertainment" are all > > > anti-liberty, freedom-hating, tyrannyists bent on enslaving the > > > world... well, they sound like "Jehovah's Witnesses" to me as > > > well... > > > > "Somewhere in between" sounds like trying to reconcile SOM's > > dichotomies. However pitting the establishment against people isn't > > so pronounced over here, it seems more like the mentioned plebeian > > "howling with the wolves" phenomenon. The bio-fuel issue also > > caused a stir when it was "discovered" that it was burning food, > > again my wry smile again over the politicians' effort to be correct > > - always. > > > > Bodvar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
