Hi Mark Smit 7 Feb. you wrote to DMB:
> For the record, Magnus was referring to little old me (I think). I > have tried to set Magnus straight. And, for the record, Quality is > fixed, it's expression in terms of evolution is not. Do not confuse > the two. If Quality is reality, then you are saying that Reality is > not fixed. Even if Reality is everchanging, that does not mean that > it is not Reality. We are talking about absolutes here. Even an > ever-changing perception can be absolute in its change. That horses > run can be absolute even if they all run at different speeds, or if > some only run in their dreams. Perhaps not a good example, but > hopefully you know what I mean. I had given you up as a wordmonger (as the tribe elder I can say such things :-) but this struck me a pure gold. So many speak about the MOQ as "dynamic" revealing that they don't understand. The MOQ is the Dynamic/Static Universe and I applaud everything you say to demonstrate this point. An even worse misunderstanding is the Quality/MOQ one, but I won't start on that just wonder if you have any comments on that issue Mark or if I - again -will have to dismiss you ;-) Bodvar > > For the record, imo, Ham adds to the discussion. I do not see it as > arrogance, just opinion. And, we all have those. > > And if you like Magnus feels that he should protect the innocent of > supposedly wrong interpretations, that is arrogant and condescending > indeed. Go save a whale! > > Mark > > Ham said: > Ham is referring to Pirsig's postulate that Quality equals Reality. > This is inconsistent with his pronouncement that "experience is the > cutting edge of reality." If Quality is fixed as a constant of the > universe, it canot be modified or actualized by experience, for > experience is relative to the subject 'I'. In short, experience serves > no purpose in Pirsig's cosmology. > > Magnus replied: > As always, you manage to jam so many wrongs into a paragraph that it's > almost amusing, wasn't it for the fact that some new people might read > it and think it's right. > > dmb says: > > Gotta agree with Magnus here. How Ham can manage to be wrong eight > times in just four sentences is truly astonishing. How can you hang > around here for years and not learn anything? Zip, zero, nada. Sheer > tenacity, I guess. Anyway, the final scenes in ZAMM where Pirsig > condemns Plato for taking the Good from the Sophists and turning it > into a fixed, eternal form have a central point. And that is just as > Magnus said, "Quality is not fixed". Ham has reversed the > "pronouncement" too. Reality is the cutting edge of experience. Ham > has reversed the order of experience with respect to subjects as well. > The subject is not the source of experience, it is a product of > experience, a concept derived from experience. It's all upside down > and backwards in Ham's hands. That's probably where the phrase > "ham-handed" comes from. Probably got his picture right there in the > dictionary. What really kills me is this attitude wherein Ham is the > genius and Pirsig just isn't smart enough to "get it". Somehow that's > even more upside down and backwards than all the other nonsense put > together. The nerve! > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Your > E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ Moq_Discuss mailing > list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
