Dave T.
25 Feb.
Bo before:
> > Thanks Platt for bringing this quote that again affirms the SOL.
> > ".....THE WAY SOM EMPLOYS SOCIAL STRUCTURES".
> > See he treats SOM as the level above the social level. Ergo
> > SOM=Intellect. Can it be said clearer?
> > "THE MOQ EMPLOYS SOM (=INTELLECT) ...."
> This affirms nothing but your but purposeful misinterpretation of RMP
> work. And you still haven't figured out that intellect is the
> potential, capacity, ability to invent and manipulate intellectual
> patterns. The intellectual level and its static patterns are the
> results, the product, of that work. Two entirely different animals.
It does affirm my SOL interpretation and kudos to you for not trying to
twist it into saying something else. You merely bring another quote that
supports the "intelligence-intellect", and - Jeez - I haven never denied
that LILA supports both, its just that only the SOL gives it its legitimate
explanatory power, while the "intelligence-intellect" renders it impotent.
You say: "Intellect is the potential, capacity, ability to invent and
manipulate intellectual patterns ..." If so intellect was before the
intellectual level something like life before the biological level. This
undermines the MOQ tenet about a pattern of the parent level "..
taking off on a purpose of its own" i.e. a social pattern becoming the
building block of intellect"
[Lila pg 50] Or, using another analogy, saying that a
Metaphysics of Quality is false and a subject-object
metaphysics is true is like saying that rectangular coordinates
are true and polar coordinates are false. A map with the North
Pole at the center is confusing at first, but it's every bit as
correct as a Mercator map. In the Arctic it's the only map to
have. Both are simply intellectual patterns for interpreting
reality and one can only say that in some circumstances
rectangular coordinates provide a better, simpler interpretation.
Pirsig have obvious has had many great ideas that at some stage
surely served him on his way to the MOQ, but later some of these only
muddles things, but Pirsig can't resist. The MOQ is the GLOBE that
can have different flat (static) projections, one such is the intellectual
projection, another the social projection ...etc. If the MOQ is one
intellectual projection and the SOM another and both- every bit as
correct, what's the difference?
And that's all for today.
Bodvar
> "BOTH (SoM & MoQ) ARE SIMPLY INTELLECTUAL PATTERNS"
> This is follow in the same paragraph by:
>
> >[Lila pg 50]
> > Within a Metaphysics of Quality, science is A set of static
> > intellectual patterns.
>
> SoM, the pseudo-metaphysical intellectual pattern that was the
> foundation of western science, is just like science, A SET OF STATIC
> INTELLECTUAL PATTERNS. MoQ is another, potentially better, set. Or at
> least in might be if it isn't waylaid by your obstinacy.
>
> >> [Horse]
> >> Only in your head Bo. A metaphysics is an Intellectual Pattern of
> >> Value and exists quite comfortably at the Intellectual level.
> >
> > Well, if you want to reject Pirsig's correct "container logic", who
> > am I to stop you.
> >
> > "You can't have Box "A" contain within itself Box "B," which in
> > turn contains Box "A." That's whacko." (By courtesy of Pirsig)
>
> Could it possibly be that what RMP was referring to is your attempt to
> turn the intellectual level into SOL was the condition described
> above? Sounds more like it. It is indeed whacko to try and contain the
> intellectual pattern MoQ, that is prior to, or the source of subjects
> and objects, on a level that can only contains subject and objects.
>
> Relook at is carefully Bo,that is probably what he was really saying.
>
> Dave
>
>
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