John said to dmb:
My complaint about you David, is centered more around your evasion of the
philosophical issues in favor of getting on your high horse rants,
fundamentalist nazis, blah blah. I can't recall a single critical analysis of
any sort of argument I've offered you,.. I'll give you one concrete example of
what I'm talking about, just to avoid the over-generalities, your utter
disregard and disparagement of Royce is completely illogical and ill-thought,
because any true scholar of James would be fascinated by the back and forth
relationship between the two men.
dmb says:
I'm glad you provided an example because I wondered what the heck you were
talking about. You're sore because I don't think Royce is very interesting? I
have Richard Mullin's book, "The Soul of Classical American Philosophy" (2007),
which covers the views of James, Royce and Peirce on the topic of religion.
After the 6 chapters on James, chapter 7 opens saying...
"The juxtaposition of Josiah Royce with William James makes one of the most
fascinating comparisons and contrasts in philosophy. On a personal level they
enjoyed the best of friendship, and philosophically they opposed each other on
some very key issues. While James insisted on the incompatibility of the idea
of "The Absolute" with human freedom and with a religious notion of God, Royce
argued that a meaningful notion of truth as well as human freedom and religion
require a belief in the Absolute."
That's pretty much what your girlfriend Jackie said in the pragmatism
anthology, which I quoted at you the last time you tried to persuade me to get
fascinated by Royce. I just can't get past this "Absolute" thing. It's just so
ridiculous. I sincerely wonder what you think you're defending. I mean, what do
you think "The Absolute" is? It's just God without the beard and trousers. And
that brings us to one of your other sore spots, doesn't it? It's not the
opposition to fundamentalism and nazis that bothers you so much as the
opposition to theism, because that's something you can take personally. Well,
if I'm into Pirsig and Pirsig aligns himself with James and Pirsig and James
both reject this Absolute in favor of something better, then how is my
disregard illogical and ill-thought? (Dewey rejected it too, and he started out
as a Hegelian) Isn't that just consistent with being a classical pragmatist?
Why do you imagine that my position any less thought out than yours? How do
figure your opinions are "arguments" while mine are just "high horse rants"? I
think you overestimate yourself on this score.
Go ahead. Make a case for the Absolute. I dare you. I double dare you.
John said:
...And in Royce, we find a fascinating phenomena, in that until ten years or so
ago, he'd been practically forgotten! Deemed utterly unworthy of scholarship.
What's up with that?
dmb says:
Yea, that "Absolute" stuff kinda went out of style. Maybe you heard about that.
Fashionable or not, I don't understand how anybody ever believed such a thing.
Jung thought Hegel was insane. Not sure if I agree, but he does have a point.
Do you not find it nutty? In any case, I think skepticism and even dismissal is
perfectly sane response to the Absolute. To say Royce doesn't warrant an
investment of time or energy is a simple matter of making choices and setting
priorities. Peirce and James were friends too, but I'm just not very interested
in him either. Too much like a positivist, for my tastes. Sometimes it only
takes a few songs to realize you don't like polka too much. It's a lot like
that.
John said:
My only conclusion can be that your sneering dismissal of him is rooted in
something besides intellectual interest or pursuit. It must be some sort of
social dominance game you play in your own head that makes you so keen to
reject a man with a life-long friendship and sparring partnership of your hero.
I'm shakin' my head sadly Dave.
dmb says:
Oh, I see. The phrase "social dominance game" totally gives you away, dude. You
feel that your social status is at stake, like you're gonna move down the
pecking order unless I care about Royce? Taking Royce seriously means taking
you seriously, is that how you see it? That's nearly as ridiculous as the
Absolute.
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