Marsha, Of the four "Ditchkins" horsemen, I'm OK with Harris, Hitchens and Dennett, but not Dawkins I'm afraid, but it's irrelevant. I'm an atheist / non-theist too, but being an atheist doesn't make you good or right in general, just right on one point. (Quite a number of famous totalitarian despots were atheists.)
(And for the record ... I'm OK with all those Pirsig & Copelston quotes too ... record not required.) The subject of the thread was the scientific consequences of fine tuning ... "apparent" design. You are someone who has shown great interest in the good and bad (and the plain weird) of "new physics" and the dogma of many scientists (inc Dawkins) is an example of the bad. Read past the references to ID in the link I provided - which you misinterpreted - and you will recognize an issue with the accepted wisdom of quantum-physics / multi-verses etc. Ian On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 1:17 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ian, > > Dawkins and Hitchens are my heros because they are brave, courageous > and bold atheists, not because they have their science right. In the past > I have complained about the science, you know that, but I still see it as more > dynamic than the theist bs. > > And just for the record: > > > "The MOQ supports religion but does not support many Christian traditions." > (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) > > The MOQ is an atheistic religious outlook that solves rather than bypasses > religious problems. > (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) > > "Quality is nature. The MOQ says there is no spiritual principle in man that > makes knowledge possible. Nature does the whole job." > (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) > > “The MOQ does not rest on faith. In the MOQ faith is very low quality stuff, a > willingness to believe falsehoods.” > (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) > > "The MOQ would add a fourth stage where the term "God" is completely dropped > as a relic of an evil social suppression of intellectual and Dynamic freedom. > The > MOQ is not just atheistic in this regard. It is anti-theistic." > (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) > > "The selling out of intellectual truth to the social icons of organized > religion is > seen by the MOQ as an evil act." > (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) > > "Faith is not required for an understanding of Quality. Here Quality succeeds > where Bradley's Absolute and Hegel's Being and the Buddhist Nothingness > and the Hindu Oneness and the theists' God and Allah and you-name-it, all > of them fail. For Quality, no faith is required because there is no way you > can > disbelieve that there is such a thing as quality. You cannot conceive of or > live > in a world in which nothing is better than anything else." > (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) > > “For quality, no faith is required because there is no way you can disbelieve > that there is such a thing as quality.” > (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) > > "When you hear the words 'spirit' and 'faith' always look for a traditional > religionist > trying to sneak his goods in the back door. ...like the positivists, the MOQ > drops > spirit and faith, cold." > (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) > > > > Marsha > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 23, 2010, at 6:50 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: > >> ID ? err no ... >> Marsha, you must be misunderstanding the argument (you and a million >> physicists & scientists, so no worry) >> >> ID is mentioned as an example of the reactionary crap that is >> generated by NOT addressing the fact the (current) universe was/is >> fine-tuned to carbon-based intelligent life. No "I" in that, just >> physics. >> >> You are backing the wrong horse with Dawkins ;-) >> Ian >> >> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 12:37 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I.D.? Are you kidding? I'm with Dawkins. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: >>> >>>> Larry Krauss is quoted by someone I've been following following for a >>>> few years - a guy called Rick Ryals (aka Island) writing about the >>>> significance of Anthropic Principles. >>>> >>>> Start here: http://knol.google.com/k/the-anthropic-principle# >>>> >>>> There is something seriously amiss at the core of of fundamental physics. >>>> Ian >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:18 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Lawrence Krauss Discussion (1/12) - Richard Dawkins >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLctxRf7duU >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 22, 2010, at 6:27 PM, Fam. Kintziger-Karaca wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/krauss06/krauss06.2_index.html >>>>>> >>>>>> for quantum-marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
