MarshaV, German philosophers inhabit every moq post. It's in the lineage, the background, the very DNA of moq.
But your'e right, there is an antidote! But it's not at all a pleasant process. You first have to go through the shock, stress and pain, of withdrawal and detox. Then you'll need to find a good moq anonymous meeting and attend faithfully. Jon On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 2:24 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > Jon, > > I'm sure somewhere there's an antidote for too many German philosophers > listed in a single post. > > > Marsha > > > > > On Apr 24, 2010, at 12:18 AM, Jon Bennett wrote: > > > MarshaV, John, Ian and company, > > > > At some point I want to discuss the archetypes of this, and the previous > > age. > > > > If you've looked at the link I posted by Tarnas, you'll see that he > refers > > to a certain nexus of interrelated ideas that are behind each age. These > are > > the metaphysical roots that P speaks of, and each age has them. > > > > The interesting thing is when you look at them closely, it is clear that > > these ideas were originally derived from ideas, or characteristics of > God. > > > > This is most evident and easy to trace with Newton. He is constantly > saying > > space is absolute, eternal, and uniform, because God is. He was very > clear > > about this and intentionally thought this way as to understand how God > > worked in the world. > > > > In any event, these ideas that were once thought of as aspects of God, > and > > in a specific tradition, become the archetypes, the core ideas of > > mechanistic physics. > > > > Not only this, these same ideas are then imputed to all other realms of > > thought and cultural expression. > > > > This is also true with modern physics. Ever read the Tao of Physics, or > > Capra's, The Turning Point. He shows meticulously how the ideas in > physics, > > classical and modern, were spread to other areas of thought. > > > > In both cases, these archetypal ideas can be traced back to theology, > even > > in a secular or non religious age, or even once they take on new, non > > religious meanings. > > > > The archetypes behind quantum physics and relativity and even complexity > > science like wise can be traced back to philosophy and theology. You can > > trace it back to when Hegel wanted to combine the ideas of the finite and > > the infinite, the Creator and the creation. This was an intentional move > by > > Hegel and other of the German Idealist philosophers that followed him, > and > > this influence was likewise felt on the Romantic poets. > > > > I know this is but a broad outline, but Hegel and most of the Idealist > > philosophers were trained as theologians, and their philosophy > deliberately > > incorporated theological ideas, and these subsequently influenced the > course > > of science, as it did the whole of the culture. > > > > Hegel's influence in this shift was the Greeks whom he idealized. And I > > believe you can trace the moq back to this turning point in Western > thought, > > which might be described as the easternization of the West. > > > > There's an interesting chapter in Alan Blooms, The Closing of the > AMerican > > Mind, called the German connection, which also makes this connection with > > the sixties culture and high German philosophy. And there is also a > > connection of German philosophy with Eastern mysticism, as well as Greek > > thought. But the trend form Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer, that leads to > > Nietzsche and then Heidegger, is the trend that Pirsig swims in. Did he > take > > it furhter than the rest, I'm not sure yet. But he is in this very same > > lineage which was begun by theologians considering the nature of God. > > > > Jon > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 11:41 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> When you say "dropped" Marsha, I can take your meaning two differing > ways: > >> > >> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:59 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > >>> I tend to agree that the terms God/Creator/Designer should be > >>> dropped as 'a relic of an evil social suppression of intellectual and > >>> Dynamic freedom.' > >> > >> > >> The first way of "dropped" is the way we drop a belief in Santa Claus as > we > >> grow older and more sophisticated. An adult realization. I dropped a > >> belief in Santa Claus when I was around ten. > >> > >> The second possible meaning I can think of is dropped completely, like > not > >> even teaching kids about Santa Clause in the first place. Expunging him > >> from our social memories. > >> > >> Do you mean God should be dropped completely from the world's ideas? Or > do > >> you mean on an individual level where a child develops an idea of his > own > >> mind and worth by his/her overcoming the belief in God? > >> > >> Or Santa Claus, for that matter. > >> > >> If you get my question, let me know your answer, or if not one of these > two > >> interpretations, some other way of dropping God. > >> > >> Like, "OOps. I just dropped your God. I hope He didn't break." > >> > >> John the God breaker > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
