Laugh, Jon, laugh...
On Apr 24, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Jon Bennett wrote: > MarshaV, > > German philosophers inhabit every > moq post. It's in the lineage, the background, the very DNA of moq. > > But your'e right, there is an antidote! But it's not at all a pleasant > process. You first have to go through the shock, stress and pain, of > withdrawal and detox. Then you'll need to find a good moq anonymous meeting > and attend faithfully. > > Jon > > On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 2:24 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Jon, >> >> I'm sure somewhere there's an antidote for too many German philosophers >> listed in a single post. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 24, 2010, at 12:18 AM, Jon Bennett wrote: >> >>> MarshaV, John, Ian and company, >>> >>> At some point I want to discuss the archetypes of this, and the previous >>> age. >>> >>> If you've looked at the link I posted by Tarnas, you'll see that he >> refers >>> to a certain nexus of interrelated ideas that are behind each age. These >> are >>> the metaphysical roots that P speaks of, and each age has them. >>> >>> The interesting thing is when you look at them closely, it is clear that >>> these ideas were originally derived from ideas, or characteristics of >> God. >>> >>> This is most evident and easy to trace with Newton. He is constantly >> saying >>> space is absolute, eternal, and uniform, because God is. He was very >> clear >>> about this and intentionally thought this way as to understand how God >>> worked in the world. >>> >>> In any event, these ideas that were once thought of as aspects of God, >> and >>> in a specific tradition, become the archetypes, the core ideas of >>> mechanistic physics. >>> >>> Not only this, these same ideas are then imputed to all other realms of >>> thought and cultural expression. >>> >>> This is also true with modern physics. Ever read the Tao of Physics, or >>> Capra's, The Turning Point. He shows meticulously how the ideas in >> physics, >>> classical and modern, were spread to other areas of thought. >>> >>> In both cases, these archetypal ideas can be traced back to theology, >> even >>> in a secular or non religious age, or even once they take on new, non >>> religious meanings. >>> >>> The archetypes behind quantum physics and relativity and even complexity >>> science like wise can be traced back to philosophy and theology. You can >>> trace it back to when Hegel wanted to combine the ideas of the finite and >>> the infinite, the Creator and the creation. This was an intentional move >> by >>> Hegel and other of the German Idealist philosophers that followed him, >> and >>> this influence was likewise felt on the Romantic poets. >>> >>> I know this is but a broad outline, but Hegel and most of the Idealist >>> philosophers were trained as theologians, and their philosophy >> deliberately >>> incorporated theological ideas, and these subsequently influenced the >> course >>> of science, as it did the whole of the culture. >>> >>> Hegel's influence in this shift was the Greeks whom he idealized. And I >>> believe you can trace the moq back to this turning point in Western >> thought, >>> which might be described as the easternization of the West. >>> >>> There's an interesting chapter in Alan Blooms, The Closing of the >> AMerican >>> Mind, called the German connection, which also makes this connection with >>> the sixties culture and high German philosophy. And there is also a >>> connection of German philosophy with Eastern mysticism, as well as Greek >>> thought. But the trend form Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer, that leads to >>> Nietzsche and then Heidegger, is the trend that Pirsig swims in. Did he >> take >>> it furhter than the rest, I'm not sure yet. But he is in this very same >>> lineage which was begun by theologians considering the nature of God. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 11:41 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>>> When you say "dropped" Marsha, I can take your meaning two differing >> ways: >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:59 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> I tend to agree that the terms God/Creator/Designer should be >>>>> dropped as 'a relic of an evil social suppression of intellectual and >>>>> Dynamic freedom.' >>>> >>>> >>>> The first way of "dropped" is the way we drop a belief in Santa Claus as >> we >>>> grow older and more sophisticated. An adult realization. I dropped a >>>> belief in Santa Claus when I was around ten. >>>> >>>> The second possible meaning I can think of is dropped completely, like >> not >>>> even teaching kids about Santa Clause in the first place. Expunging him >>>> from our social memories. >>>> >>>> Do you mean God should be dropped completely from the world's ideas? Or >> do >>>> you mean on an individual level where a child develops an idea of his >> own >>>> mind and worth by his/her overcoming the belief in God? >>>> >>>> Or Santa Claus, for that matter. >>>> >>>> If you get my question, let me know your answer, or if not one of these >> two >>>> interpretations, some other way of dropping God. >>>> >>>> Like, "OOps. I just dropped your God. I hope He didn't break." >>>> >>>> John the God breaker >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
