Marsha, When I consider the impact of German philosophy on the world, which culminated in Heideeger becoming a Nazi and using his philosophy to justify and promote Hitler, I can only say with Solomon:
There is a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; Eccl 3:4 On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 10:50 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Laugh, Jon, laugh... > > > > On Apr 24, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Jon Bennett wrote: > > > MarshaV, > > > > German philosophers inhabit every > > moq post. It's in the lineage, the background, the very DNA of moq. > > > > But your'e right, there is an antidote! But it's not at all a pleasant > > process. You first have to go through the shock, stress and pain, of > > withdrawal and detox. Then you'll need to find a good moq anonymous > meeting > > and attend faithfully. > > > > Jon > > > > On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 2:24 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Jon, > >> > >> I'm sure somewhere there's an antidote for too many German philosophers > >> listed in a single post. > >> > >> > >> Marsha > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Apr 24, 2010, at 12:18 AM, Jon Bennett wrote: > >> > >>> MarshaV, John, Ian and company, > >>> > >>> At some point I want to discuss the archetypes of this, and the > previous > >>> age. > >>> > >>> If you've looked at the link I posted by Tarnas, you'll see that he > >> refers > >>> to a certain nexus of interrelated ideas that are behind each age. > These > >> are > >>> the metaphysical roots that P speaks of, and each age has them. > >>> > >>> The interesting thing is when you look at them closely, it is clear > that > >>> these ideas were originally derived from ideas, or characteristics of > >> God. > >>> > >>> This is most evident and easy to trace with Newton. He is constantly > >> saying > >>> space is absolute, eternal, and uniform, because God is. He was very > >> clear > >>> about this and intentionally thought this way as to understand how God > >>> worked in the world. > >>> > >>> In any event, these ideas that were once thought of as aspects of God, > >> and > >>> in a specific tradition, become the archetypes, the core ideas of > >>> mechanistic physics. > >>> > >>> Not only this, these same ideas are then imputed to all other realms of > >>> thought and cultural expression. > >>> > >>> This is also true with modern physics. Ever read the Tao of Physics, or > >>> Capra's, The Turning Point. He shows meticulously how the ideas in > >> physics, > >>> classical and modern, were spread to other areas of thought. > >>> > >>> In both cases, these archetypal ideas can be traced back to theology, > >> even > >>> in a secular or non religious age, or even once they take on new, non > >>> religious meanings. > >>> > >>> The archetypes behind quantum physics and relativity and even > complexity > >>> science like wise can be traced back to philosophy and theology. You > can > >>> trace it back to when Hegel wanted to combine the ideas of the finite > and > >>> the infinite, the Creator and the creation. This was an intentional > move > >> by > >>> Hegel and other of the German Idealist philosophers that followed him, > >> and > >>> this influence was likewise felt on the Romantic poets. > >>> > >>> I know this is but a broad outline, but Hegel and most of the Idealist > >>> philosophers were trained as theologians, and their philosophy > >> deliberately > >>> incorporated theological ideas, and these subsequently influenced the > >> course > >>> of science, as it did the whole of the culture. > >>> > >>> Hegel's influence in this shift was the Greeks whom he idealized. And I > >>> believe you can trace the moq back to this turning point in Western > >> thought, > >>> which might be described as the easternization of the West. > >>> > >>> There's an interesting chapter in Alan Blooms, The Closing of the > >> AMerican > >>> Mind, called the German connection, which also makes this connection > with > >>> the sixties culture and high German philosophy. And there is also a > >>> connection of German philosophy with Eastern mysticism, as well as > Greek > >>> thought. But the trend form Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer, that leads to > >>> Nietzsche and then Heidegger, is the trend that Pirsig swims in. Did he > >> take > >>> it furhter than the rest, I'm not sure yet. But he is in this very same > >>> lineage which was begun by theologians considering the nature of God. > >>> > >>> Jon > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 11:41 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> When you say "dropped" Marsha, I can take your meaning two differing > >> ways: > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:59 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> I tend to agree that the terms God/Creator/Designer should be > >>>>> dropped as 'a relic of an evil social suppression of intellectual and > >>>>> Dynamic freedom.' > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The first way of "dropped" is the way we drop a belief in Santa Claus > as > >> we > >>>> grow older and more sophisticated. An adult realization. I dropped a > >>>> belief in Santa Claus when I was around ten. > >>>> > >>>> The second possible meaning I can think of is dropped completely, like > >> not > >>>> even teaching kids about Santa Clause in the first place. Expunging > him > >>>> from our social memories. > >>>> > >>>> Do you mean God should be dropped completely from the world's ideas? > Or > >> do > >>>> you mean on an individual level where a child develops an idea of his > >> own > >>>> mind and worth by his/her overcoming the belief in God? > >>>> > >>>> Or Santa Claus, for that matter. > >>>> > >>>> If you get my question, let me know your answer, or if not one of > these > >> two > >>>> interpretations, some other way of dropping God. > >>>> > >>>> Like, "OOps. I just dropped your God. I hope He didn't break." > >>>> > >>>> John the God breaker > >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >>>> Archives: > >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > >>>> > >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >>> Archives: > >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
