Hi John, I watched all twelve parts of the Krauss -Dawkins discussions, so yes indeedy, I know Krauss is an atheist. But I don't see my atheism as a choice between theism and science. I tend to agree that the terms God/Creator/Designer should be dropped as 'a relic of an evil social suppression of intellectual and Dynamic freedom.' Science, on the other hand, has SOM problems that the MoQ would help overcome. Imho. Marsha
On Apr 23, 2010, at 11:47 AM, John Carl wrote: > I gotta go so I don't have much time this morning Marsh, but seems to me if > an atheist doesn't have his science right, he hasn't got much of anything. > > And you do know that Krauss is an atheist as well, don't you. > > John the enticed by the assertion of "anthropic principles" which sounds > like biocentricism is a cool direction to go. > > > > On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 4:17 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Ian, >> >> Dawkins and Hitchens are my heros because they are brave, courageous >> and bold atheists, not because they have their science right. In the past >> I have complained about the science, you know that, but I still see it as >> more >> dynamic than the theist bs. >> >> And just for the record: >> >> >> "The MOQ supports religion but does not support many Christian traditions." >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> The MOQ is an atheistic religious outlook that solves rather than bypasses >> religious problems. >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> "Quality is nature. The MOQ says there is no spiritual principle in man >> that >> makes knowledge possible. Nature does the whole job." >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> “The MOQ does not rest on faith. In the MOQ faith is very low quality >> stuff, a >> willingness to believe falsehoods.” >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> "The MOQ would add a fourth stage where the term "God" is completely >> dropped >> as a relic of an evil social suppression of intellectual and Dynamic >> freedom. The >> MOQ is not just atheistic in this regard. It is anti-theistic." >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> "The selling out of intellectual truth to the social icons of organized >> religion is >> seen by the MOQ as an evil act." >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> "Faith is not required for an understanding of Quality. Here Quality >> succeeds >> where Bradley's Absolute and Hegel's Being and the Buddhist Nothingness >> and the Hindu Oneness and the theists' God and Allah and you-name-it, all >> of them fail. For Quality, no faith is required because there is no way you >> can >> disbelieve that there is such a thing as quality. You cannot conceive of or >> live >> in a world in which nothing is better than anything else." >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> “For quality, no faith is required because there is no way you can >> disbelieve >> that there is such a thing as quality.” >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> "When you hear the words 'spirit' and 'faith' always look for a traditional >> religionist >> trying to sneak his goods in the back door. ...like the positivists, the >> MOQ drops >> spirit and faith, cold." >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 23, 2010, at 6:50 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: >> >>> ID ? err no ... >>> Marsha, you must be misunderstanding the argument (you and a million >>> physicists & scientists, so no worry) >>> >>> ID is mentioned as an example of the reactionary crap that is >>> generated by NOT addressing the fact the (current) universe was/is >>> fine-tuned to carbon-based intelligent life. No "I" in that, just >>> physics. >>> >>> You are backing the wrong horse with Dawkins ;-) >>> Ian >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 12:37 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I.D.? Are you kidding? I'm with Dawkins. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: >>>> >>>>> Larry Krauss is quoted by someone I've been following following for a >>>>> few years - a guy called Rick Ryals (aka Island) writing about the >>>>> significance of Anthropic Principles. >>>>> >>>>> Start here: http://knol.google.com/k/the-anthropic-principle# >>>>> >>>>> There is something seriously amiss at the core of of fundamental >> physics. >>>>> Ian >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:18 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Lawrence Krauss Discussion (1/12) - Richard Dawkins >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLctxRf7duU >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 22, 2010, at 6:27 PM, Fam. Kintziger-Karaca wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/krauss06/krauss06.2_index.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> for quantum-marsha >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ___ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>> Archives: >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
