Jon,
You prefer the philosophy of the Inquisition?
Marsha
On Apr 24, 2010, at 11:13 AM, Jon Bennett wrote:
> Marsha,
>
> When I consider the impact of German philosophy on the world, which
> culminated in Heideeger becoming a Nazi and using his philosophy to justify
> and promote Hitler, I can only say with Solomon:
>
> There is a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to
> dance;
>
> Eccl 3:4
>
> On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 10:50 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Laugh, Jon, laugh...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 24, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Jon Bennett wrote:
>>
>>> MarshaV,
>>>
>>> German philosophers inhabit every
>>> moq post. It's in the lineage, the background, the very DNA of moq.
>>>
>>> But your'e right, there is an antidote! But it's not at all a pleasant
>>> process. You first have to go through the shock, stress and pain, of
>>> withdrawal and detox. Then you'll need to find a good moq anonymous
>> meeting
>>> and attend faithfully.
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 2:24 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jon,
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure somewhere there's an antidote for too many German philosophers
>>>> listed in a single post.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 24, 2010, at 12:18 AM, Jon Bennett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> MarshaV, John, Ian and company,
>>>>>
>>>>> At some point I want to discuss the archetypes of this, and the
>> previous
>>>>> age.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you've looked at the link I posted by Tarnas, you'll see that he
>>>> refers
>>>>> to a certain nexus of interrelated ideas that are behind each age.
>> These
>>>> are
>>>>> the metaphysical roots that P speaks of, and each age has them.
>>>>>
>>>>> The interesting thing is when you look at them closely, it is clear
>> that
>>>>> these ideas were originally derived from ideas, or characteristics of
>>>> God.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is most evident and easy to trace with Newton. He is constantly
>>>> saying
>>>>> space is absolute, eternal, and uniform, because God is. He was very
>>>> clear
>>>>> about this and intentionally thought this way as to understand how God
>>>>> worked in the world.
>>>>>
>>>>> In any event, these ideas that were once thought of as aspects of God,
>>>> and
>>>>> in a specific tradition, become the archetypes, the core ideas of
>>>>> mechanistic physics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not only this, these same ideas are then imputed to all other realms of
>>>>> thought and cultural expression.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is also true with modern physics. Ever read the Tao of Physics, or
>>>>> Capra's, The Turning Point. He shows meticulously how the ideas in
>>>> physics,
>>>>> classical and modern, were spread to other areas of thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> In both cases, these archetypal ideas can be traced back to theology,
>>>> even
>>>>> in a secular or non religious age, or even once they take on new, non
>>>>> religious meanings.
>>>>>
>>>>> The archetypes behind quantum physics and relativity and even
>> complexity
>>>>> science like wise can be traced back to philosophy and theology. You
>> can
>>>>> trace it back to when Hegel wanted to combine the ideas of the finite
>> and
>>>>> the infinite, the Creator and the creation. This was an intentional
>> move
>>>> by
>>>>> Hegel and other of the German Idealist philosophers that followed him,
>>>> and
>>>>> this influence was likewise felt on the Romantic poets.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know this is but a broad outline, but Hegel and most of the Idealist
>>>>> philosophers were trained as theologians, and their philosophy
>>>> deliberately
>>>>> incorporated theological ideas, and these subsequently influenced the
>>>> course
>>>>> of science, as it did the whole of the culture.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hegel's influence in this shift was the Greeks whom he idealized. And I
>>>>> believe you can trace the moq back to this turning point in Western
>>>> thought,
>>>>> which might be described as the easternization of the West.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's an interesting chapter in Alan Blooms, The Closing of the
>>>> AMerican
>>>>> Mind, called the German connection, which also makes this connection
>> with
>>>>> the sixties culture and high German philosophy. And there is also a
>>>>> connection of German philosophy with Eastern mysticism, as well as
>> Greek
>>>>> thought. But the trend form Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer, that leads to
>>>>> Nietzsche and then Heidegger, is the trend that Pirsig swims in. Did he
>>>> take
>>>>> it furhter than the rest, I'm not sure yet. But he is in this very same
>>>>> lineage which was begun by theologians considering the nature of God.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 11:41 PM, John Carl <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> When you say "dropped" Marsha, I can take your meaning two differing
>>>> ways:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:59 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I tend to agree that the terms God/Creator/Designer should be
>>>>>>> dropped as 'a relic of an evil social suppression of intellectual and
>>>>>>> Dynamic freedom.'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first way of "dropped" is the way we drop a belief in Santa Claus
>> as
>>>> we
>>>>>> grow older and more sophisticated. An adult realization. I dropped a
>>>>>> belief in Santa Claus when I was around ten.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The second possible meaning I can think of is dropped completely, like
>>>> not
>>>>>> even teaching kids about Santa Clause in the first place. Expunging
>> him
>>>>>> from our social memories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you mean God should be dropped completely from the world's ideas?
>> Or
>>>> do
>>>>>> you mean on an individual level where a child develops an idea of his
>>>> own
>>>>>> mind and worth by his/her overcoming the belief in God?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or Santa Claus, for that matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you get my question, let me know your answer, or if not one of
>> these
>>>> two
>>>>>> interpretations, some other way of dropping God.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like, "OOps. I just dropped your God. I hope He didn't break."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John the God breaker
>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
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