Hi Marsha, This is so very well put. I can't add to it or subtract from it. The MoQ is a relief.
But did you have to tell me that rubbing the Buddha's belly won't bring me good luck? :( > Hi Mary, > > For me, understanding the nature of ALL patterns made the big > difference in my > world view. Undermining the belief in an independent self and > inherently existing > objects changes everything. That patterns are ever-changing, relative, > interdependent > and impermanent, moves ones life to a different level. The four levels > becomes a > bridge to move between the old s/o-view and the new value-view. It > also helped > that I was motivated to try to understand Emptiness. It was a head- > banger to be sure. > Funny thing is I didn't know anything about Buddhism until a few years > ago. I thought > that you rubbed Buddha's stomach if you wanted good luck. Makes me > laugh to > remember this. > > > Marsha > > > > > > > > On May 31, 2010, at 10:02 AM, Mary wrote: > > > Hi Marsha, > > > >> Hi Mary, > >> > >> > >> I would ask if both inductive and deductive logic are included? I > >> think > >> they both should be represented in the fourth level. And I might > >> consider > >> whether fourth-level patterns come with their own intrinsic, > >> unquestionable > >> authority? > >> > > [Mary Replies] > > Agree on all points. One 'authority' has effectively been replaced > by > > another. > > > >> While I think the fourth level is SOM all the way. I hold the level > >> structure > >> lightly. To me the nature of all patterns has had a far greater > >> impact. > >> > > [Mary Replies] > > Exactly! The definition of the Intellectual Level, though, is > essential to > > understanding the MoQ. I don't think it's possible to grasp the > enormity of > > the implications inherent in a worldview of Value while clinging to > the > > notion that the Intellectual Level is more than SOM. > > > > Best, > > Mary > > > >> > >> Marsha > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On May 30, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Mary wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Marsha, > >>> > >>> I think your definition agrees with mine, but would welcome > comments. > >>> > >>> I-SPOV's: > >>> > >>> The set of patterns of value which state that subjects and objects > >> are the > >>> fundamental reality of the world and Quality is at best a property > of > >>> subjects or objects and at worst nothing more than an opinion. > >>> > >>> I-SPOV's say it is bad to accept a belief just because an authority > >> figure > >>> (political, religious, or otherwise) tells you so, since the only > >> things > >>> which can be known as fact as those things which can be proven by > >>> observation or experimentation. > >>> > >>> > >>> Mary > >>> > >>> On Behalf Of MarshaV > >>>> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 4:45 AM > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Hi Bo, > >>>> > >>>> I've added the word 'rational' to my definition of the > Intellectual- > >>>> spovs. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Intellectual Static Patterns of Value: > >>>> > >>>> Reified concepts and the rules for their rational manipulation. > >>>> Intellectual > >>>> patterns create false boundaries, giving the illusion of > >> independence, > >>>> or > >>>> 'thingness'. The fourth level is a formalized subject/object (SOM) > >>>> level > >>>> where the subjective is supposedly stripped from the experience. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Marsha > >>>> > >>>> ___ > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> > >> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
