On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Andre Broersen wrote: > Marsha to Andre: > > What kind of pattern is 'shaming'? > > Andre: > I did not use the expression 'shaming'. I used the noun 'shame'. This is an > intellectual concept invented through SOM experience to designate an action > that brings shame/dishonor upon someone..
Andre, the evangelist? Who has appointed you? > I used it as applying (both ways) to Bodvar and Platt by their suggestion > that THEIR (intellectual) interpretation of the MOQ is better than Mr. > Pirsig's...a suggestion which has been described by Mr. Pirsig as > 'undermining' the MOQ. I therefore pointed to their challenging Mr. Pirsig's > 'intellectual capacity' (as well as his intellectual integrity). Marsha: I find both Bo and Platt exhibit great respect for Mr. Pirsig's intellectual capacity and achievement. I believe they have a great understanding of the MoQ. - You are insisting on one truth when RMP has clearly stated that the MoQ supports multiple truths, and that philosophical statements about Quality(DQ/sq) and be both true and false. > > I also put it in terms of the Cleveland Harbour Effect...meaning: you only > see what you are looking for. We both know what glasses these two gentlemen > have on and what they have to lose when they have to forgo their intellectual > conviction heeding arguments to the contrary ......... A massive loss of > (social)reputation...a form of dishonor...a massive reorganising of their > static patterns. But they have too much to lose...socially speaking... . (and > perhaps intellectually: they may get the idea that they will fall of the edge > of the earth...intellectually speaking). Marsha: I certainly do not know what glasses anyone wears. That seems like an egotistical, absurd statement. There are cultural glasses, indeed, but we act also very dependent on individual experience: DQ and individual static patterns of life history. "The reason there is a difference between individual evaluations of quality is that although Dynamic Quality is a constant, these static patterns are different for everyone because each person has a different static pattern of life history. Both the Dynamic Quality and the static patterns influence his final judgment. That is why there is some uniformity among individual value judgments but not complete uniformity." (RMP, SODV) I think your intellectual glasses may have slipped off your nose. Have your pants slipped too, because I'm sensing a clueless, social ass? > In SOM terms, one would have a clash between reputations and authority...and > ego's, end of story! And both camps unsatisfied.( have you noticed lately > that Bodvar DOES consider himself a 'saint'?!) Maybe you spent too many summers at bible camp? I consider Bo defending the better MoQ explanation. > But the MOQ says that (Bodvar's and Platt's) lower pattern of intellectual > value is trying to dominate a higher intellectual pattern of value and > therefore it is considered an immoral action. Your shaming point-of-view and tactics speak for themselves. And calling another person 'immoral' is another sign of cluelessness. > Okay, one party satisfied hoping the other party learns. But NO, they have a > (social) reputation to uphold...and sainthood (although I read today that the > Vatican is going to apply more stringent rules to who becomes what)! This is > a further application of brilliant Christian intellectual patterning, so much > supported by Bodvar who is looking forward to the realization of this... just > like the politician Wilders in the Netherlands who won 24 seats ( one third > of parliament)! You are presuming that their concern is their social status; it's a projection. I believe Bo to be completely dedicated to the Quality(DQ/sq). You references here are all social. I think you must be pulling my leg with such naive babble. > Australia is fine, but it ain't home, the Netherlands is home but it ain't > mine no more. (freely adapted from Neil Diamond). Following DQ can leave you > up in the air...but ye gotta come down sooner or later. If you are truly following DQ you are living in the moment, but I confess I haven't been recently tested. My life this past decade (plus) has been mostly peaceful. What troubles I've had have been mostly illusion. I am sorry if things for you are on the chaotic side. > Sorry to be so long winded about this. You are not too long winded, and I do need the challenge, Maybe. Marsha ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
