Score? Andre 144,000 Bodvar 0.
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Andre Broersen <[email protected]>wrote: > Bodvar to Andre: > > Andre previously:In the MOQ a culture is understood as a combination of > social andintellectual patterns of value. > > Bodvar: > > > Who said so? It may have been said but it's nonsense, the Stone Agers were > as intelligent as ourselves, but none of their cultures were intellectual. > > Andre: > Ahum, ehhh I hate to say this but actually it was Mr. Pirsig... yep, and > this is very troublesome to you isn't it Bodvar... the man has rescued you > (going by your personal story)and you are blaming him and chastising him and > correcting him and naming him nonsensical in the process of having done it! > > You, my friend, in true Aussie fashion, are an ungrateful bastard! > > And you, my friend, do not understand what Mr. Pirsig means! > > When, (did Mr. Pisig suggest) did intellectual patterns of value 'take > over' and tried to 'run/govern/dominate society?: Armistice Day: November > 11, 1918. (Australian Rememberance Day, the eleventh of the eleventh at > eleven minutes past eleven... notice the ritualized expression of a low > quality event??!!...to keep it alive in an attempt that 'we' may not repeat > it. > > Your dismissal of Mr. Pirsig's designating of 'a culture is a combination > of'... has little to do with what he meant by culture. Whether the > intellectual level dominated or not is not the point. A culture, in whatever > way it is expressing its relation to, and with, immediate experience ( i.e > Quality) is relevant. > > Remember Mr. Pirsig saying that the (intellectual )search for meaning is a > relatively recent fad? Well, you can look upon the intellectual level as > trying to perform that feat as just that. But I think that the intellectual > level is not enough developed for this undertaking. It is only a few > thousand years old and put in charge only one hundred years ago. Place this > against the evolutionary perspective and you'll see the (in) significance of > this. > > Intellectual, patterned expressions arise out of social rituals and it is > my humble opinion that those cultures that have lost the connection with > this immediate experience have become relied upon 'postulated' > (intellectual) givens ( the story of the West) as an intermediary to > immediate experience. ( have you noticed how many pseudo psychological > magazines have flooded the market, all of them containing variations on the > same question:"Is it alright for me to feel this(or that)? > > Have you followed ZMM? Of course you have! > > Bodvar: > > Your "exasperated" tone begins to wear thin, You and Arlo don't (dare) face > the argument that no level below intellect has any "regional" versions, why > would intellect be an exception? > > Andre: > Arlo is very, very capable of speaking for himself. What you are doing is > suggesting that the French culture is the same as the American culture, the > Inuit culture the same as the Chinese culture. What you do not recognize is > that these cultures are different because their philosophical underpinnings > are different. Their interpretation of 'the good' is different. Your SOM/SOL > conviction does not allow you to recognize variation, difference of the same > theme i.e different ways of responding to Quality i.e. immediate experience. > > Sad really. > > Bodvar: > > In the PT letter Pirsig affirms the SOL by "no use postulating an > intellectual level before the Greeks" (= SOM in a Q context) and this > was no polite gesture, ... > > Andre: > He was annoyed. What is the meaning of 'the'? C'm on Bodvar! And your > addition in the brackets is yours! > > Bodvar: > ...but if THAT was the Upanishads era (as he claims) it is was an era of > philosophy which is a search for objective truth (except religious > philosophy which is a self-contradiction) > > Andre: > You are repeating yourself, and your arguments Bodvar. It is getting late > here and I am tired now. Will address this particular one in a next > post...since when is truth 'objective'? > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
