Magnus 3 July u wrote:
> Me? Opinion? Need you ask anyone to tell you these things? :) Could be you had a lucid moment :-) > "Great theories create new realities"? Hmm, well, yes in the sense > that the intellectual pattern is real, then yes. I should not have used the term "theories" - that lead you immediately to the SOMish notion that everything conveyed by language is "intellectual". I meant that P's campfire talk says that grand scientific insights expands scientific (intellectual) understanding , consequently a metaphysical upheaval like the Quality expands REALITY itself. The old metaphysics SOM suddenly finds itself a subset of the new metaphysics and "is not amused" ... as shown by the weak -somist - interpreters. > If we say that our intellectual reality is the sum of all theories and > ideas, then the intellectual reality is different with the theory than > without it. Phew. When a Stone Ager forwarded the "theory" of flint tools its was not an intellectual pattern, nor was the Ten Commandments on Moses' stone tablet or Muhammad's messages from Allah. Can't you snap out of this silly notion that everything said or written is intellectual, it may be in SOM, but not in the MOQ.. > However, our inorganic reality hasn't changed one bit. I.e. apples > still fall exactly as fast as they did before the new theory, and > planets still orbit the sun exactly as before. Yes, SOM-ishly seen, but P's campfire message is that "inorganic reality" has changed constantly, gravity did not exist when Greek physics attributed some craving with arrows for coming to rest on the ground. And as you know General Relativity enlarged the data of things falling into a non-gravity one. And Quantum Physics have changed inorganic reality even more. But, never mind I accept gravity as a good scientific explanation > The same goes for the MoQ. It creates a new intellectual reality since > the MoQ theory is added to that sum, but it doesn't change anything > else. Bah, the MOQ is no "intellectual" pattern - least not a pattern of MOQ's 4th. level. Please use your logic! What you - like the weak interpreters - mean is that it is a thought - MIND - pattern and if mind is back, matter is back and SOM is in the driver's seat again. > "Gravity" and "the law of gravity" are two different things. Gravity > is the inorganic version that has existed since the big bang. The law > of gravity is the intellectual pattern that Newton formulated. Pirsig > hadn't the tools he needed, the MoQ and its levels, to separate those > two at the time he wrote ZMM. You too my son? The difference between reality itself and what we think, speak, write about it is the essence of the SOM which was instigated by the Greeks, must we start in kindergarten? The MOQ is a break with SOM: REALITY IS OUR PERCEPTION OF REALITY! Now, this is completely whacko and I would not have touched it hadn't it been for the DQ/SQ constellation that makes SOM (the said difference between reality and the theory) the highest static GOOD. This way we have reality back as our abode (no longer isolated subjects) while we similtaneously have the STATIC VALUE of the distinction at our disposal. This is having the cake and eating it combined. > And it's the same thing with Quality. It has always existed, in some > sense even before the big bang I'd say. But the theory called MoQ is > new. Not according to P of ZAMM, the Quality Reality came to be with the MOQ, but now the latter-day Pirsig backs out of his own great insight and - like you want gravity to have been always - wants Quality to have been always, hence the atrocious QUALITY/MOQ meta-metaphysics that undermines the MOQ. The MOQ is revolution, not swirling of old SOM-tea around forever? Bodvar Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
