Platt, can you point to where Pirsig says that there should be no government sponsored social programs at all and no regulation of markets whatsoever? You do realize that you and Pirsig are at opposite ends of the political spectrum in the US?
http://robertpirsig.org/Observer%20Interview.htm TA: Have your politics changed over the years? RP: I have been a lifelong Democrat. I was born in the state of Hubert Humphrey who was, I believe, one of the most intelligent people ever to get into politics. My girlfriend lived across the street from him and I would see him from time to time. Speak to him. Like all ideas, though, the Democrat ideas need to be Dynamic. It's like Lila, it needs to be kept current. Apparently Pirsig doesn't see the matter as completely unrestricted free market libertarian capitalism versus totalitarian socialism if he is a life-long Democrat. On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Platt Holden <platthol...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Mark, > > It certainly is refreshing to have on this site someone who is willing > to challenge the politically correct party line. Pirsig did the same > in preferring capitalism to socialism, a position many here still can't > stomach. > > Best, > Platt > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "118" <ununocti...@gmail.com> > To: <moq_disc...@moqtalk.org> > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 1:11 PM > Subject: Re: [MD] Tea Bagging > > >> Hi dmb, >> >> Right wing, left wing. Hitler was considered left-wing at the time. He >> brought is many social changes such as shorter work days. I do not think >> you would consider that right wing even with today's interpretation. If >> your intent is to polarize, you are not being factual. Wiki is a very >> biased site, and not useful for political insight, in fact it contradicts >> itself from one place to another. But what do you expect from a site that >> provides free expression of opinion disguised as fact. >> >> It is possible to see where a certain web site stands in politics to >> review >> the donations made by such individuals to the political process. Such a >> list can be found on: >> >> http://www.newsmeat.com/ >> >> where one can do a name search. Now Jimmy Wales is not much of an >> activist, >> but check out the CEO of Google, Eric Schmidt. His donations to Barbara >> Boxer and Harry Reed are telling. Google recently gave $2,000,000 to >> Wikipedia. Money corrupts even the best of intentions. >> >> Cheers, >> Mark >> >> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 9:01 AM, david buchanan >> <dmbucha...@hotmail.com>wrote: >> >>> >>> Horse said to Platt: >>> ...When will you stop with the propaganda and bluster? The Nazis, >>> whatever >>> the nickname, were right-wing, not left-wing and all your blustering to >>> avoid your own right-wing bias won't hide that fact. A couple of groups >>> you >>> conveniently left out below are the capitalists and corporatists which, >>> as >>> Steve pointed out via Mussolini, are the beneficiaries of the fascist >>> legacy. >>> >>> dmb says: >>> I think that's right. As Pirsig paints it, fascism is essentially a >>> rejection of intellectual values and a glorification of social level >>> values. >>> And as just about any political scientist or historian will tell you, >>> political positions just don't get any more right wing than fascism >>> (except >>> maybe a Monarchist) and fascists hate leftists more than anything. >>> >>> There are some differences between the various kinds of fascism; Italian, >>> German, Spanish or whatever. But, unless you are tone-deaf to cultural >>> attitudes, the affinities and similarities are pretty darn obvious. As I >>> mentioned the other day, for example, the right-wing Dutch politician >>> (Geert >>> Wilders) joined several of our own right-wing politicians at ground zero >>> in >>> Manhattan and they all made the same anti-Islamic noises for the same >>> right-wing reasons. And there is the right-wing radio preacher from Royal >>> Oak, Michigan who supported and admired Hitler and Mussolini back in the >>> 1930's. Pat Buchanan (no relation) ran for President as a Republican a >>> few >>> cycles ago. He grew up in a house where Mussolini was admired and >>> Mussolini's portrait was proudly hung on the walls. >>> >>> As Pirsig pointed out, fascism in America was not so intense as in >>> Europe. >>> They didn't have to resist full-blown communism either. In the U.S., >>> social >>> level anti-intellectualism manifest itself as opposition to FDR's New >>> Deal. >>> And when you look at today's political situation, it's quite obvious that >>> the Liberals want to protect and build upon the New Deal while the >>> Republicans have been doing everything they can to dismantle it. I mean, >>> just look at who's afraid of Health Insurance Reform. Who thinks such >>> programs are scary, scary, socialism? Who is running against it as we >>> speak? >>> In this country, right-wingers have always opposed these things. There is >>> an >>> 80 year track record that makes fascist attitudes and positions pretty >>> easy >>> to spot. >>> >>> For our "low information" friends, here's a little Wiki on the European >>> strain: >>> >>> Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. >>> Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, >>> values, and systems, including the political system and the economy. >>> Fascism >>> was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I >>> who >>> combined left-wing and right-wing political views, but it gravitated to >>> the >>> political right in the early 1920s. Scholars generally consider fascism >>> to >>> be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum. >>> Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires >>> strong >>> leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to >>> commit >>> violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong. They claim that >>> culture is created by the collective national society and its state, that >>> cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus they reject >>> individualism. Viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, >>> they see pluralism as a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a >>> totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety. >>> They advocate the creation of a single-party state. Fascists reject and >>> resist the autonomy of cultural or ethnic groups who are not considered >>> part >>> of the fascists' nation and who refuse to assimilate or are unable to be >>> assimilated. They consider attempts to create such autonomy as an affront >>> and a threat to the nation. Fascist governments forbid and suppress >>> opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement. They identify >>> violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and >>> vitality. >>> Fascism rejects the concepts of egalitarianism, materialism, and >>> rationalism in favor of action, discipline, hierarchy, spirit, and will. >>> They oppose liberalism (as a bourgeois movement) and Marxism (as a >>> proletarian movement) for being exclusive economic class-based movements. >>> Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class >>> movement that promotes ending economic class conflict to secure national >>> solidarity. >>> >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
