Hello everyone On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Mary <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi John in discussion with DMB and (I think) Dan, > > DMB said: > It's just about thinking and talking badly. It's about ruining the > possibility of any real communication. We trade in words and ideas here and > so this is NOT nit picking about typos or spelling errors. To misconstrue > the basic meaning of these terms is intellectually paralyzing. When confused > concepts are being used at that basic level, the conversation is going > nowhere fast. > > > Agree completely, DMB, so let me see if I understand your objection. > Are you saying that static latches are absolutes that never change? > That seems to be your point, but you know things latch and unlatch all > the time; to be replaced when something 'better' comes along. Some > latches are very strong and persist for a long time, others are weak > and quickly come unlatched, and sometimes things are tried out then > discarded almost immediately when their anticipated value fails to > 'materialize' (so to speak). > > John asked: > can you demonstrate any object > or pattern that is truly static, in all of experience? No, you cannot. > > > I've been wondering when somebody was going to ask this question. > Thanks, John. If static latches are never-changing, somebody should > be able to name one. I won't try to speak for Marsha, but on some > basic level this has to be what she is saying. Nothing we can name is > permanent, ergo 'ever changing' is completely correct. Maybe some > things just take longer to change than others so that they appear to > be permanent? > > Permanence is an illusion just like subjects and objects are an illusion.
Hi Mary "After many months of thinking about it, he was left with a reward of two terms: Dynamic good and static good, which became the basic division of his emerging Metaphysics of Quality. "It certainly felt right. Not subject and object but static and Dynamic is the basic division of reality. When A. N. Whitehead wrote that "mankind is driven forward by dim apprehensions of things too obscure for its existing language," he was writing about Dynamic Quality. Dynamic Quality is the pre-intellectual cutting edge of reality, the source of all things, completely simple and always new. It was the moral force that had motivated the brujo in Zuni. It contains no pattern of fixed rewards and punishments. Its only perceived good is freedom and its only perceived evil is static quality itself-any pattern of one-sided fixed values that tries to contain and kill the ongoing free force of life. "Static quality, the moral force of the priests, emerges in the wake of Dynamic Quality. It is old and complex. It always contains a component of memory. Good is conformity to an established pattern of fixed values and value objects. Justice and law are identical. Static morality is full of heroes and villains, loves and hatreds, carrots and sticks. Its values don't change by themselves. Unless they are altered by Dynamic Quality they say the same thing year after year. Sometimes they say it more loudly, sometimes more softly, but the message is always the same." [LILA] Dan comments: I see nothing here about permanence, absolute, or the truly static. In fact, RMP goes to great pains throughout LILA explaining how both Dynamic and static are needed. Experience is seen as synonymous with Dynamic Quality. Static quality is the memory of that Dynamic experience. I am unsure why, but as long as John has been here he's been seemingly intent on discrediting the work of Robert Pirsig without showing any sense that he actually understands that work. He mocked RMP's Copleston annotations. Maybe to prove he was more intelligent than RMP? He insisted on introducing Royce's Absolute as equivalent to Dynamic Quality when it clearly isn't by any stretch. I like John so please don't take this as mean-spirited. I do tend to get irritated though that as intelligent as he is he just doesn't seem to get it. But maybe that's his game. Maybe I am just being played. Who knows? Thank you, Dan Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
