Hey Arlo, [John] > Here I am, at last. > > [Arlo] > Goodie. I was getting bored. > > John: I knew you'd be missing Platt when he's gone.
> [John] > There is no way, the mere addition of complexity explains the ratcheting up > of > choices, that each level experiences as part of it's "patterned > complexity". > > [Arlo] > If you read what I said, I said that complexity is a part of structure, and > greater complexity (in some manner or another) in structure affords the > agenic > side a broadened possible range of mobility, an increased repertoire. > John: I did read it that way and I think you've got your cart and horse backwards. I think greater complexity is driven by "the agenic side" rather than agency being a function of additions to complexity. Although, "this is all an analogy" I believe some analogies are more conducive to proper understanding than others. Since the "increased repertoire" is seen as the agent, we should just put the agent in the driver's seat. Arlo: > > A mouse can walk, can move further, can travel greater distances, because > the > biological complexity (intra-level comparison) is greater than that of the > amoeba. This does not mandate the mouse must walk, or where it should walk, > or > what it may find as it walks. I am NOT reducing everything to > neurophysiological complexity, and I reject the notion that either > complexity > is the entire answer or it can be discarded entirely. > John: Nuthin' like a nice equivocation to settle an argument. Nice. > [John] > Man, you really are a moronist. It's sad. > > [Arlo] > Oh yeah. I've missed this. > John: See? Don't you wish you were nicer to him when he was still around? > > [John] > I personally prefer to view the idea that free will, is fundamental to the > cosmos. Then it seems like I'm here by choice, rather than accident... > > [Arlo] > Whose choice? Did you choose to be here? When? > John: Cosmic choice. The universe choose my existence, is what I'm saying (because it suits me to think so, admittedly) Arlo: > > I think the problem in our talking past each other is you seem to separate > out > "free will" and "determinism" as opposing and antagonistic views, that it > either has to be all "free choice" or all "pre-determined". All choice or > no > choice, as it were. > > John: Yes, that might be a problem. As fundamental world-views, either extreme falls somewhat short because there is an element of freedom and at the same time determinism in all that I experience. But the way I look at it, is if I've got any freedom at all it's far better and more positive to focus on that aspect of existence than one's trappedness. Choosing choice, as always. John Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
