Hello everyone On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 5:56 PM, David Harding <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Dan, > >> >>> David: >>> Therefore, Dan, my question still stands - From an MOQ perspective how did >>> both the Mathematician and the Zen Archer experience Dynamic Quality? >> >> Dan: >> And my answer still stands: they just know. > > Yes, How? What did they both do that meant they experienced Dynamic Quality?
Dan: Doing something doesn't translate into knowing how it occurs. You are changing the question from a how to a what. > >>> David: >>> I agree, but this doesn't explain how they experienced Dynamic Quality. >>> >>> As Ron asks: 'Where does the Dynamic Quality come from if there is nothing >>> but static patterns?' >> >> Dan: >> But there isn't "nothing but static patterns." Dynamic Quality comes >> as a surprise. It is always new. To ask where it comes from is to ask >> a static quality question about that which isn't static quality. >David: > I agree but I'm not asking where it comes from, I'm asking how it appears. Dan: Well, David, if we knew how it appears it wouldn't be a surprise, now would it. And you certainly did ask where it comes from! David: As Ron asks: 'Where does the Dynamic Quality come from if there is nothing but static patterns?' Dan: That is you, right? Are you intentionally attempting to confuse me? This is hard enough... > >> Dan: >> There is no other answer, though. And yes, those who intellectualize >> about "it" are only drawing farther away. They will never know the >> answer intellectually. >David: > I agree. But this is describing Dynamic Quality itself and not a finger > pointing to show how to experience it. One of those you cannot describe, the > other, you can. Dan: I am sorry, David. I think you're mistaken. I don't see that I was describing anything. If I was doing any describing at all, it would be what "it" is not, not what "it" is. > >> Dan: >> It appears when we least expect it. It appears when "we" desolve into >> certain static endeavors that demand our full attention and negate the >> patterns of "me". And I know I am not answering "how" it appears. I am >> not sure that is a question that can be answered in static quaity >> language. It is something felt, like the first blush of love. >David: > But this time I think that you are describing how it appears. I agree with > this. It appears when we desolve into static endeavors that demand our full > attention and negate the patterns of 'me'. That is, when we perfect static > quality, it disappears and there is nothing but Dynamic Quality. Dan: Yes, it appears "when," but that is not how. How it appears is the mystery. >David: > This is what both the Zen Archer and the Mathematician had in common. They > both went over something, again and again and again. They went over things so > many times until they had completely 'forgot' they were even doing them > and... Dynamic Quality. Dan: I am not sure this is exactly right though. If it were, the master would have praised Herrigal's archery instead of booting him out of class. Whatever the mathematician has in common with the practice of zen is entirely accidental (incidental?), in my opinion. Right practice is the key, not just practice. If a person isn't practicing in the right fashion, no amount of practice will bring them any closer to "it." It is also important to associate with right people. >David: > Static intellectual quality appears for a reason, it appears in situations of > low quality. Generally, the lower quality the situation, the louder that > 'voice' is. It's through doing someone over and over again to quiet that > voice down do we experience Dynamic Quality. That is, in the perfection of > static quality, there is nothing but Dynamic Quality. Dan: We experience Dynamic Quality all the time. It is the cutting edge of reality, or pre-intellectual experience. I am not sure how correct it is to say static intellectual quality appears in low quality situations. I think there are high quality situations where it appears too... ideas of surpassing quality like the theory of evolution and the theory of relativity. Great insights arise seemingly by themselves at times although static intellectual quality has set the stage, so to speak. I am unsure if static quality is ever perfect. If it were, it would no longer be capable of evolving towards something better. >David: > I think this is part of the 'great insight' of Pirsig in Lila. He find that > is isn't some new, recent idea, it is the oldest idea known to man. Rta. > > "The physical order of the universe is also the moral order of the universe. > Rta is both. This was exactly what the Metaphysics of Quality was claiming. > It was not a new idea. It was the oldest idea known to man. > > This identification of rta and arete was enormously valuable, Phredrus > thought, because it provided a huge historical panorama in which the > fundamental conflict between static and Dynamic Quality had been worked out. > It answered the question of why arete meant ritual. R-ta also meant ritual. > But unlike the Greeks, the Hindus in their many thousands of years of > cultural evolution had paid enormous attention to the conflict between ritual > and freedom. Their resolution of this conflict in the Buddhist and Vedantist > philosophies is one of the profound achievements of the human mind." > > This is 'how Zen works'. Now, using the strength of a 21st Century > Metaphysics, we can point very directly at how to experience Dynamic Quality. Dan: Well, again, we experience Dynamic Quality all the time. Zen practice is designed to quiet the mind and focus attention on the moment. But there is no goal that zen points towards, no work to be done. Just sit. Just eat. Just be mindful. >David: > It's through the perfection of static quality that Dynamic Quality can be > found. Dan: I tend to disagree with this, as I've explained. Perhaps if you were to put it as the pursuit of perfection, it might be better. To believe that any "thing" can be perfect is to misunderstand the fundamental nature of reality. Thank you, Dan Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
