On May 1, 2011, at 2:36 PM, Ham Priday wrote: > Hi Marsha (Steve quoted) -- > > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 6:13 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Isn't free will dependent on causation, and isn't causation, >> in the MoQ, an explanatory extension of a pattern? > > [Steve]: >> Yes, causation is understood as a stable pattern of preference, >> B routinely values precondition A. Further, B literally IS a set >> of such preferences. > > [Marsha, on 5/1]: >> I un-ask the question. Wherever those preferences lie, >> they do not inherently exist. > > Whoa! Hold on there, Marsha. You have a valid point that deserves a better > answer than Steve provided. The causation argument is superficial at best, > besides which cause-and-effect is only man's way of interpreting events as > sequential in time. As a consequence, you have been led to the depressing > conclusion that preference is deterministic.
Marsha: Been a long time since I read Hume, but there still doesn't seem to be anything found to represent 'cause.' Causal explanation is based on stable, predictable patterns. There is no "autonomous homoculus' to have the "depressing conclusion that preference is deterministic." The laws of nature are also useful static patterns of value, explanatorily useful patterns. > > Nothing could be further from the truth. The very fact that the primary > source (God, DQ or Essence) is hidden from us and regarded as "undefinable" > supports the principle of Free Will. > [Read the 'Hiddenness' essay on my Values Page at > www.essentialism.net/balance.htm] > Look at it this way: If you were suddenly granted total knowledge of past and > future events -- including your ultimate destiny -- what freedom would you > have? What choices would you make? > > If you think about it, it becomes obvious that in order to exercise free > will, you must be "innocent" of Absolute Truth. That's why we humans are > denied empirical evidence of metaphysical reality, proof of God's existence, > or knowledge of the meaning and purpose of our existence. Such understanding > would subvert and prejudice our role as the free agents of value. > > Moreover, we do affect the world we live in. The laws of nature are only a > compilation of principles based on what has happened in the past, including > events that our decisions and choices have produced or influenced. What we > do now and in the future is a microcosm of these laws. Pirsig called > experience "the cutting edge of reality", by which he meant that the reality > we create for ourselves is actualized by experience within the parameters of > universal order. To say that everything is fixed as "predetermined patterns > of Quality" is to ignore that we constantly remake the world in accordance > with our value preferences. > > So ask Steve to put away those causal syllogisms. Free Will Lives! And you > and I are living examples of this freedom. > > Thanks and best regards, > Ham > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > From: "Steven Peterson" <[email protected]> > > > Hi Marsha, > When Pirsig says, A causes be can be thought of as B values > precondition A. I added that there is nothing more to B (whatever the > collection pattern being thought about) > than such preferences since preference is another word value and > since in the MOQ everything identifiable is thought of as a pattern of > value or collection of patterns. > > Best, > Steve > > > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 7:19 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> On Apr 30, 2011, at 7:04 AM, Steven Peterson wrote: >> >> >> HI Steve, >> >> I don't understand the last part of your statement: "Further, B literally IS >> a >> set of such preferences." Could you please elaborate. >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> Marsha > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
