On May 11, 2011, at 4:22 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR wrote: > [DMB] > Right. Marsha is making a wildly invalid inference, taking a giant leap. She > takes the MOQ's claims about the limits of language to be a condemnation of > language as such. > > [Arlo] > Yes, and this is also evident in Mark's words about words being a form of > "imprisonment". I think she further confuses being "devoid language" with > pursuing awareness "beyond language". For her, both the meditating Buddhist > and > the proto-human primate without language are in the same state of bliss, that > is torn away when language enters. >
Marsha: Not what I think at all... But you know that. > [DMB on Marsha] > Its structure is not an evolved capacity, but a prison. It's not just that it > is unable to say anything about the ultimate truth, whatever THAT is. No, it > hides the truth, she says, and by this she must mean that ultimate truth. > > [Arlo] > Right, its says the road is a prison because it "forces" us to drive in a > certain direction, but is blind to what "freedoms" that road also brings. > > Marsha is trapped in a world where she still thinks in terms of existential > reality, rather than being able to understands an empirical, experiential > reality. All is not "no-thing", my motorcycle is very empirically real and > valuable to me, and the activity it enables is as real as real can be. > > She is still back trying to argue that there is no "existential motorcycle", > and doesn't see that everyone else here has moved beyond that a long time ago. > She confuses the "homunculus" with the experiential self, and thinks that a > MOQ > denies the reality of both. Instead, a MOQ denies the reality of an > existential > self, but would say an experiential self is quite real. Better said, it does > not deny "reality", it denies existential reality, and offers an experiential > reality instead. > > "Have you ever been at sea in a dense fog, when it seemed as if a tangible > white darkness shut you in, and the great ship, tense and anxious, groped her > way toward the shore with plummet and sounding-line, and you waited with > beating heart for something to happen? I was like that ship before my > [assimilation of language] began, only I was without compass or sounding-line, > and had no way of knowing how near the harbour was. "Light! give me light!" > was > the wordless cry of my soul, and the light of love shone on me in that very > hour. " (Helen Keller, The Story of My Life) Marsha: Things exist as static patterns, conventionally. ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
