Hi Steve, Some month ago you said:
On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Steven Peterson <peterson.st...@gmail.com>wrote: > Hi John, > > I'm packing for a short trip, but quickly... > > You concede that free will is redundant, but below in response to my > claim that we don't choose our values but rather we ARE our values you > said that "Choice and valuing are synonomous. Is what I've been > saying. > John: Ah. Then it's all cleared up then. yay. We fundamentally agree. Steve: > What we choose is what we value. What we value is what we > choose. Individuality IS our choice, so thus it could be said that we > don't make choices, we ARE our choices. That's just as true and > points to the fundamentalness of choice as well." If, as you say, we > ARE our choices and values and choices are, as you say, synonymous, > that it sounds like you are ready to agree that we ARE our values. But > then, saying "we choose our values" seems empty. John: Well, only because it's so obvious. But that's no refutation, fer sure. Steve: > We choose our > choices? Sure, but the free will question is about HOW choices are > made. > > John: Is it? I thought it was *whether* choice was made or even possible. Whether it's possible to choose, to freely decide. To choose between given alternatives is the only freedom I can imagine and yet there are those who make choices beyond the merely given, and they are geniuses and source of DQ to our species. But I believe individuality is itself a choice, and thus we don't make choices, choices make us. And yes, I think that is the exact opposite of determinism. I guess I have no real bone to pick with you. It's that Sam Harris guy I find ridiculous. Mebbe I should write to him instead of Hawking. So many idiots, so little time... John Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
