[Ian]
... but the underlying love of the human has to still be there or there
is little point (value) to the communications.
[Arlo]
There are more reasons one can value posting other than love of other
person, no?
I'd like to share a quick anecdote.
A friend of mine relocated his family to the South. His son's teachers
immediately began complaining about his "rude" behavior. They held
parent-teacher conferences. Nothing changed. Then his son discovered
something. By addending his words with "bless his soul", suddenly he was
no longer getting in trouble for being rude. Saying "Arlo is a friggin'
jackass" was rude, but saying "Arlo is a friggin' jackass, bless his
soul" did not even cause the teachers to blink.
I am convinced that this second form of insulting, however, is more
insidious. For not only does the *same* insult carry through, but there
is an implied superiority on the part of the speaker. Its not only
insulting, its patronizing. Saying "but I love you" after insulting
someone may make YOU* feel like you are above insulting people, but it
should be plain to everyone that its just as insulting, if not more so,
than NOT saying "but I love you".
* That's a generic "YOU", Ian, I don't mean you personally.
Insert obscure reference to Billy and the Boingers' "You Stink... But I
Love You!".
And what I see happening now, to a large degree, is a condemnation of
the "You stink!" people by the "You stink... but I love you!" people. I
say this, if you think I'm a jackass, call me a jackass, but don't
pretend that adding "but I love you" afterwards absolves you from
wielding insults.
If there is a situation here, its between Steve and DMB, they are mature
adults. If the conversation continues, its because they value it (for
their own reasons). If either wanted out, the door is easy to find.
Neither are "victims" and neither is more responsible than the other for
the discourse between them. Everyone repeat that ten times.
Dan's initial remarks were fine, and there was absolutely nothing wrong
with suggesting detente, sometimes that is the best thing one can
suggest. But notice how its gone further than that. Notice how people
not even involved in the dialogue are jumping in to condemn one of them,
like rabid dogs. Notice how when DMB explains himself he draws an
immediate comment from Marsha about "rationalizing", but when Steve
explains himself Marsha is (not so) oddly silent. And it is any surprise
that the Fox News contingent jumps in with support for Steve, while
across a few posts jabbing like a frenzied monkey at that oh-so-evil
academy and its pinheaded interlectials.
And notice how Mark talks about rising above DMB's rhetoric while saying
"Maybe once he gets back to the real world (if he was ever there), he
will change for the better." You think that was really about condemning
"insulting" others on the list, or just an excuse to make another attack
against those ivory tower pinheads? Or is this proof that here, just
like in the south, veiled or polite insults make one feel superior to
one who just calls a fool a fool.
Here's some advice. While DMB is off taking lessons on "how to get along
with others", Marsha why don't you stop and admit that you rabidly
attack nearly everything he says, often for no other reason I can ever
see other than "DMB said it". If you don't like what he has to say, put
him on ignore, don't respond immediately with several dozen insulting
emails to nearly every single post he makes. And Mark, perhaps you
didn't notice but your heroes Platt and Bo set up their own list. If
what they have to say is so much more valuable than the likes of Ant of
DMB, why aren't you over there instead? Why waste your time on a list
where people (should) take seriously the people Pirsig says understand
him the best?
And, in fairness, some advice to me. Go back to scanning Northrop, Arlo,
this entire "debate" has a false premise and you're a fool to get involved.
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