Arlo, Many people have weighed in on this issue. It was never confined to a debate between just Steve and dmb. I've been in this since April.
Marsha On Jul 27, 2011, at 1:54 PM, Arlo Bensinger wrote: > [Ian] > ... but the underlying love of the human has to still be there or there is > little point (value) to the communications. > > [Arlo] > There are more reasons one can value posting other than love of other person, > no? > > I'd like to share a quick anecdote. > > A friend of mine relocated his family to the South. His son's teachers > immediately began complaining about his "rude" behavior. They held > parent-teacher conferences. Nothing changed. Then his son discovered > something. By addending his words with "bless his soul", suddenly he was no > longer getting in trouble for being rude. Saying "Arlo is a friggin' jackass" > was rude, but saying "Arlo is a friggin' jackass, bless his soul" did not > even cause the teachers to blink. > > I am convinced that this second form of insulting, however, is more > insidious. For not only does the *same* insult carry through, but there is an > implied superiority on the part of the speaker. Its not only insulting, its > patronizing. Saying "but I love you" after insulting someone may make YOU* > feel like you are above insulting people, but it should be plain to everyone > that its just as insulting, if not more so, than NOT saying "but I love you". > > * That's a generic "YOU", Ian, I don't mean you personally. > > Insert obscure reference to Billy and the Boingers' "You Stink... But I Love > You!". > > And what I see happening now, to a large degree, is a condemnation of the > "You stink!" people by the "You stink... but I love you!" people. I say this, > if you think I'm a jackass, call me a jackass, but don't pretend that adding > "but I love you" afterwards absolves you from wielding insults. > > If there is a situation here, its between Steve and DMB, they are mature > adults. If the conversation continues, its because they value it (for their > own reasons). If either wanted out, the door is easy to find. Neither are > "victims" and neither is more responsible than the other for the discourse > between them. Everyone repeat that ten times. > > Dan's initial remarks were fine, and there was absolutely nothing wrong with > suggesting detente, sometimes that is the best thing one can suggest. But > notice how its gone further than that. Notice how people not even involved in > the dialogue are jumping in to condemn one of them, like rabid dogs. Notice > how when DMB explains himself he draws an immediate comment from Marsha about > "rationalizing", but when Steve explains himself Marsha is (not so) oddly > silent. And it is any surprise that the Fox News contingent jumps in with > support for Steve, while across a few posts jabbing like a frenzied monkey at > that oh-so-evil academy and its pinheaded interlectials. > > And notice how Mark talks about rising above DMB's rhetoric while saying > "Maybe once he gets back to the real world (if he was ever there), he will > change for the better." You think that was really about condemning > "insulting" others on the list, or just an excuse to make another attack > against those ivory tower pinheads? Or is this proof that here, just like in > the south, veiled or polite insults make one feel superior to one who just > calls a fool a fool. > > Here's some advice. While DMB is off taking lessons on "how to get along with > others", Marsha why don't you stop and admit that you rabidly attack nearly > everything he says, often for no other reason I can ever see other than "DMB > said it". If you don't like what he has to say, put him on ignore, don't > respond immediately with several dozen insulting emails to nearly every > single post he makes. And Mark, perhaps you didn't notice but your heroes > Platt and Bo set up their own list. If what they have to say is so much more > valuable than the likes of Ant of DMB, why aren't you over there instead? Why > waste your time on a list where people (should) take seriously the people > Pirsig says understand him the best? > > And, in fairness, some advice to me. Go back to scanning Northrop, Arlo, this > entire "debate" has a false premise and you're a fool to get involved. > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
