hi
-----Original Message-----
From: 118
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [MD] question: MOQ, Pirsigism, passionate emotion
Hi Michael,
Thank you for the question. In both ZMM and Lila, Pirsig states that
by trying to wrap MoQ with words, Quality only becomes more hidden (my
specific words there by the way, not his). Therefore, the standard
Subject/Object Metaphysics does not work very well, and he has to
resort to analogies which may seem simple on the surface, but are
actually quite profound at the next level down. I am sure that
Pirsig's intent was even at a level below that. So, yes, if you look
for Quality using the tools of the Church of Reason, you will find the
Church of Reason. There is a saying: "When a pickpocket meets a
Saint, all he sees are pockets".
I believe that this is why Pirsig refers to "spiritual rationalism".
That would be a rationalism that could well be very very different
from our standard logic. As I said, he tries to explain the through
analogy. The problems with analogies are that the pictures that form
in one's head are highly personal. Really the only way to grasp MoQ
would be to spend time with Pirsig as a master-apprentice sort of
thing. As long as it takes, maybe years if one is stubbornly
clutching at a world that is familiar. Remember that Pirsig pretty
much lost his mind and had to go through electroshock therapy, not a
great way to end up. This is why it is always recommended that one
seek enlightenment with a teacher. Not only is it faster, but also
one will not need to be charged up through electrodes.
Pirsig admits that he does not see things the same way as his alter
ego Phaedrus. He views the world in a classical way (with the left
brain), whereas Phaedrus probably had a balanced amount of right and
left depending on the situation. This is why I try to promote the Yin
Yang approach (which Pirsig also uses) as an analogy. A proper
balance is required to see the world in a new way (I will speak to
this in another post in the future once I figure out how to express it
in an understandable way). Currently the West is highly partisan
towards the classical approach. Pirsig states that it all started
shortly before the birth of Christ, but my research suggests that it
is way more complicated than that.
Hope to hear more from you.
Mark
On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Michael R. Brown <[email protected]>
wrote:
Hello all -
I've been on the list before, then left, now returned.
I've been reading Bob Pirsig's writing regularly since the mid-1980s, and
remain deeply intrigued by him - first as a literary artisan (for which
he's
not received enough credit) and then as a philosopher. I do think that he
has lit on some insights of huge importance, and expressed them in the way
they needed to be expressed.
But here's something that I have been unable to resolve, so I throw it out
here for what it's worth.
Almost every discussion of Pirsig, the totality of his thought, and the
MOQ
(all three of which are separate) that I've seen eventually resemble the
Church of Reason intellectualizing criticized so adeptly in ZAMM.
And what I have not yet seen, ever, is an expression of passionate
emotion.
There's obviously passionate emotion in ZAMM, and I've always been
grateful
that RP touches sexuality in L - so where's the expression of this passion
in those who have been influenced by him? Am I missing it? What's the
subjective importance of this writer to those who love him?
[ For those who are interested in RP's possible literary children, I
worked
in a commentary and tribute to the closing of ZAMM - which I think one of
the most moving things I've ever read - in my last book, a memoir that
closes on the opposite shore of the great Bridge that our protagonists are
approaching as the book ends. ]
MRB
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