Mark,
Nothing to forgive, of course. The reference to a potato chip was my poor attempt at a zen reply, like pointing to a bamboo plant. Marsha On Aug 22, 2011, at 12:17 AM, 118 wrote: > Hi Marsha, > I am not sure what you mean. I present things to entertain, not to be > special. Nothing that I say is new, I try to present it in a > different way each time. I presented the Zen poem to give you some > awareness of "self" as it relates to Zen. (I am not sure if it was a > translation, it was something I heard Alan Watts say years ago). In > Zen terms, such a self is not a thinker of thoughts, why do you think > you are supposed to "empty your head of thoughts to experience Zazen? > To say that a self is a thinker of thoughts just does not make sense, > unless you are subscribing to some kind of modern day misguided > physical psychology nonsense. It is like saying a that someone at a > concert is actually producing the music. > > Besides, I presented something that I personally find important, and > all I get is some snide remark about potato chips. What the hell is > that all about? Is it to be a cutesy little dumb blond? If you did > not understand it, at least keep your trite little nonsense to > yourself. If you do understand, then tell me where I have gone wrong. > > You seem to dangle fish in front of everybody to make them jump > through hoops. What is that fish? Why, it is others desire to be > Right. Not very often do you support what others are saying, but > speak in platitudes that have no relation to the subject at hand. > But, I know, this is just your way, I am just pulling your covers. > > If you do not feel you do this, just ask yourself if you would post on > a forum that you never got answers to. I highly doubt it. This is > your form of ego entertainment, there is nothing that may be > meaningful to you in it. Bait and switch, present the football then > pull it away. Some like this game, but please spare the potato chip > remarks for them. It is just plain silly. > > There, I have had my vent. Please forgive me. > > Cheers, > Mark > > On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 4:42 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Mark, >> >> Grrrrr to you. >> >> Was your presenting the little English translation of the Zen poem an >> exception to your rule because what you present is special? Or was it a >> kind of 'do what I say and not what I do' moment? >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 21, 2011, at 2:13 PM, 118 wrote: >> >>> BZZZZ >>> >>> Is that worth one of your dangling fish that I jump through hoops for? >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 10:29 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> You bet it's worth a peanut! >>>> >>>> >>>> How about: >>>> >>>> There once was a bee that sat on a wall, >>>> it said bzzzz, and that is all. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> On Aug 21, 2011, at 1:09 PM, 118 wrote: >>>> >>>>> Marsha, >>>>> >>>>> There was a young man who said tho' >>>>> It seems that I know that I know >>>>> What I would like to see >>>>> Is the "I" that knows me >>>>> When I know that I know that I know >>>>> >>>>> Zen >>>>> >>>>> That is worth at least a peanut >>>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 10:05 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark, >>>>>> >>>>>> Would you like another potato chip? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Marsha >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 21, 2011, at 12:03 PM, 118 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Joe, Ham, Marsha, perhaps Ron, Arlo and whomever else is stuck in >>>>>>> this two dimensional web, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let's stick to logic for a second, for this is how philosophy works. >>>>>>> Let's not get caught up in semantic misdirection and consider what we >>>>>>> can logically create. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When Joe speaks of emotions, he gets caught up in a self-referential >>>>>>> circle. He defines emotions as indefinable. Why are they >>>>>>> indefinable? Because they are emotions! I am not sure how far this >>>>>>> logic will take one. Logic is structure, it is something we build on >>>>>>> assumptions. Such structures can stretch to the stars, or down to the >>>>>>> atom. We always begin in the middle of these. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Emotions, or as Ham prefers, pre-Rational sentiments, create >>>>>>> definitions. So we logically begin with "that which creates >>>>>>> definitions". Our assumption is therefore that there is something >>>>>>> which results in definitions and start the logical process. We can >>>>>>> call this assumption anything we like. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From this assumption, we can logically work our way up into high level >>>>>>> math, or down into mystical realities. We can define such results as >>>>>>> Illusions, Delusions, Fantasy, Creativity, Evolution, Devolution, etc. >>>>>>> Let us assume that all these things are what we have. So I will >>>>>>> simplify all those words into one: Reality. Therefore in the first >>>>>>> instance, we have "that which creates Reality". I am of course >>>>>>> referring to our individual realities, or as Ham would state, our >>>>>>> "sensibilities". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> While I enjoy reading Ham's reflections on what he sees, I do not >>>>>>> agree with his assumption that "man is the measure of all things". I >>>>>>> would say that "all things are the measure of man". By this, I mean >>>>>>> that man operates within a world that is provided him. Man's >>>>>>> measurements are simply a byproduct of existing measurements. Man >>>>>>> harnesses these things and uses them for his own good. He cannot >>>>>>> create them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am not sure who started this thread, but the nature of the subject >>>>>>> title seems to point to Marsha. The "agent" I would assume is similar >>>>>>> to Ham's agent. I did not have the time to read the quotes that >>>>>>> Marsha provided since I am more interested in personal contributions, >>>>>>> and I do not need to read another interpretation of the Diamond Sutra >>>>>>> written in English. I will say, however, that I disagree that the >>>>>>> Self can create thoughts or action. I therefore prefer Ham's >>>>>>> "witness". If somebody can demonstrate to me a logical or causal >>>>>>> connection between the Self (our unique personal awareness), and >>>>>>> thoughts (the action of the brain), I would most appreciate it. For >>>>>>> example, what is the mechanism by which the Self creates thoughts? >>>>>>> Where does this First Action lie? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, I enjoy the posts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mark >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ___ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>> Archives: >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
