Marsha, Got it. I am simply projecting as usual Mark Mark
On Aug 21, 2011, at 11:31 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Mark, > > Nothing to forgive, of course. The reference to a potato chip was > my poor attempt at a zen reply, like pointing to a bamboo plant. > > > Marsha > > > > > > > On Aug 22, 2011, at 12:17 AM, 118 wrote: > >> Hi Marsha, >> I am not sure what you mean. I present things to entertain, not to be >> special. Nothing that I say is new, I try to present it in a >> different way each time. I presented the Zen poem to give you some >> awareness of "self" as it relates to Zen. (I am not sure if it was a >> translation, it was something I heard Alan Watts say years ago). In >> Zen terms, such a self is not a thinker of thoughts, why do you think >> you are supposed to "empty your head of thoughts to experience Zazen? >> To say that a self is a thinker of thoughts just does not make sense, >> unless you are subscribing to some kind of modern day misguided >> physical psychology nonsense. It is like saying a that someone at a >> concert is actually producing the music. >> >> Besides, I presented something that I personally find important, and >> all I get is some snide remark about potato chips. What the hell is >> that all about? Is it to be a cutesy little dumb blond? If you did >> not understand it, at least keep your trite little nonsense to >> yourself. If you do understand, then tell me where I have gone wrong. >> >> You seem to dangle fish in front of everybody to make them jump >> through hoops. What is that fish? Why, it is others desire to be >> Right. Not very often do you support what others are saying, but >> speak in platitudes that have no relation to the subject at hand. >> But, I know, this is just your way, I am just pulling your covers. >> >> If you do not feel you do this, just ask yourself if you would post on >> a forum that you never got answers to. I highly doubt it. This is >> your form of ego entertainment, there is nothing that may be >> meaningful to you in it. Bait and switch, present the football then >> pull it away. Some like this game, but please spare the potato chip >> remarks for them. It is just plain silly. >> >> There, I have had my vent. Please forgive me. >> >> Cheers, >> Mark >> >> On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 4:42 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Mark, >>> >>> Grrrrr to you. >>> >>> Was your presenting the little English translation of the Zen poem an >>> exception to your rule because what you present is special? Or was it a >>> kind of 'do what I say and not what I do' moment? >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 21, 2011, at 2:13 PM, 118 wrote: >>> >>>> BZZZZ >>>> >>>> Is that worth one of your dangling fish that I jump through hoops for? >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 10:29 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> You bet it's worth a peanut! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> How about: >>>>> >>>>> There once was a bee that sat on a wall, >>>>> it said bzzzz, and that is all. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2011, at 1:09 PM, 118 wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Marsha, >>>>>> >>>>>> There was a young man who said tho' >>>>>> It seems that I know that I know >>>>>> What I would like to see >>>>>> Is the "I" that knows me >>>>>> When I know that I know that I know >>>>>> >>>>>> Zen >>>>>> >>>>>> That is worth at least a peanut >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 10:05 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mark, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Would you like another potato chip? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2011, at 12:03 PM, 118 wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Joe, Ham, Marsha, perhaps Ron, Arlo and whomever else is stuck in >>>>>>>> this two dimensional web, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let's stick to logic for a second, for this is how philosophy works. >>>>>>>> Let's not get caught up in semantic misdirection and consider what we >>>>>>>> can logically create. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When Joe speaks of emotions, he gets caught up in a self-referential >>>>>>>> circle. He defines emotions as indefinable. Why are they >>>>>>>> indefinable? Because they are emotions! I am not sure how far this >>>>>>>> logic will take one. Logic is structure, it is something we build on >>>>>>>> assumptions. Such structures can stretch to the stars, or down to the >>>>>>>> atom. We always begin in the middle of these. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Emotions, or as Ham prefers, pre-Rational sentiments, create >>>>>>>> definitions. So we logically begin with "that which creates >>>>>>>> definitions". Our assumption is therefore that there is something >>>>>>>> which results in definitions and start the logical process. We can >>>>>>>> call this assumption anything we like. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From this assumption, we can logically work our way up into high level >>>>>>>> math, or down into mystical realities. We can define such results as >>>>>>>> Illusions, Delusions, Fantasy, Creativity, Evolution, Devolution, etc. >>>>>>>> Let us assume that all these things are what we have. So I will >>>>>>>> simplify all those words into one: Reality. Therefore in the first >>>>>>>> instance, we have "that which creates Reality". I am of course >>>>>>>> referring to our individual realities, or as Ham would state, our >>>>>>>> "sensibilities". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> While I enjoy reading Ham's reflections on what he sees, I do not >>>>>>>> agree with his assumption that "man is the measure of all things". I >>>>>>>> would say that "all things are the measure of man". By this, I mean >>>>>>>> that man operates within a world that is provided him. Man's >>>>>>>> measurements are simply a byproduct of existing measurements. Man >>>>>>>> harnesses these things and uses them for his own good. He cannot >>>>>>>> create them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am not sure who started this thread, but the nature of the subject >>>>>>>> title seems to point to Marsha. The "agent" I would assume is similar >>>>>>>> to Ham's agent. I did not have the time to read the quotes that >>>>>>>> Marsha provided since I am more interested in personal contributions, >>>>>>>> and I do not need to read another interpretation of the Diamond Sutra >>>>>>>> written in English. I will say, however, that I disagree that the >>>>>>>> Self can create thoughts or action. I therefore prefer Ham's >>>>>>>> "witness". If somebody can demonstrate to me a logical or causal >>>>>>>> connection between the Self (our unique personal awareness), and >>>>>>>> thoughts (the action of the brain), I would most appreciate it. For >>>>>>>> example, what is the mechanism by which the Self creates thoughts? >>>>>>>> Where does this First Action lie? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, I enjoy the posts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mark >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ___ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>>> Archives: >>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>>>> >>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>> Archives: >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
