Hi Dan, Matt, Steve, et al ... I see this is where the freedom / perception / will quote of Steve's arose.
I agree with Dan's point - have said it in my own ways many times - it's possible to overthink, to too consciously overanalyze. We need to switch our left-brains off and listen through the right more often. Ian On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 12:54 AM, Dan Glover <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello everyone > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Steven Peterson > <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> dmb says: >>>> I think Pirsig's comments only clarify and illuminate the very issue we've >>>> been debating for months and I think it is your questions that just muddle >>>> things... >> >> >>> Dan: >>> Yes, I agree with David here. Which is why I observed that sometimes >>> we think too much. We don't see what is being said for thinking about >>> what our answer is going to be... >> >> Steve: >> Pirsig has described freedom as a matter of perception while every >> other philosopher that I have ever read has described it as a matter >> of will. You don't see that as interesting? That's not worth thinking >> about? > > Dan: > > That's not what I mean... of course it's interesting and has > intellectual value. Sometimes though, we gloss over what's important > in life by over-thinking. Instead of listening to someone or really > reading the words that they write, we are thinking of what our answer > is goign to be. There is a time for thinking and a time for > not-thinking. For example... I've talked before about how when I come > upon a very difficult problem that I'll study it and think about it in > great detail and then just let it go. Forget about it. And later, > maybe a few hours or a few days or even a few weeks, an answer will > just pop into my head, usually when I am doing something mindless like > taking a walk. Did I think about the problem? Yes. And then I forgot > it entirely. That is what I'm getting at when I say we sometimes think > too much. We fail to allow time for not-thinking. > >> >> What is so weird for me here is that based on what you've said >> previously you _don't_ agree with dmb on this free will business. >> Correct me if I am wrong, but I understood that you disagree with >> dmb's claim that Pirsig's conception of freedom is about the capacity >> of a rational agent to freely choose among a set of options. > > Dan: > > I am unsure that dmb and myself are in complete agreement in regards > to the free will vs determinism debate but I don't exactly recall our > disagreement at the moment. Did dmb say that a rational agent does the > choosing? That sounds a lot like Ham. Still, just because we may not > agree on one aspect of the MOQ doesn't mean we don't agree on most of > it. I think we do. > > Thank you, > > Dan > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
