Steve, inserted ... maybe some progress On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Steven Peterson <[email protected]>wrote:
> Hi Ian, > > Ian: > > Saying our free-will is "part random" is not the same as saying it's "by > its > > very nature unpredictable" is it ! > > Steve: > Perhaps. Would you agree if I had added the term "somewhat" before > "unpredictable"? The point is that adding more unpredictability > doesn't give us more freedom. Quite the opposite. > [IG] It's "a" point - but if it is "the" point for you it's utterly trivial. Who would suggest otherwise. And its not "the opposite" either - why inhabit such a boring world ? > > Ian: > > It's just honest to recognise that our will is subject to chance too > > Steve: > The issue isn't whether or not it is true or "honest." What I am > objecting to is the notion that unpredictability is the thing that is > needed for freedom. > [IG] Again it's not all or nothing it's not "the" thing needed for freedom, but adding chance and unpredictability to some rigid kind of determinism, gives us more room to manoevre. Clearly too much unpredictability and our influence diminishes again. Some of the perceived "unpredictability" is the effect of patterns at play in the level in which we are currently applying our beloved "logic". The real error banging heads between determinism and free-will is failing to recognizing that they proceed in different levels - hence are perfectly compatible. As I often say "life is just complicated enough" - ask Goldilocks. (And it IS about being true / honest / virtuous lest we forget.) > Ian: > - and > > it's beneficial two ways - we can take account of the unpredictability in > > our willed choices and actions, through guesses, percentages, margins for > > error, plan-B fallbacks, etc - AND - when we get it wrong we learn > > something from what we didn't expect, and evolve our will. > > Steve: > All this is about trying to take more control (more power, more > freedom) by becoming _better_ at planning and making predictions. > [IG] You might be on a power trip - but I'd rather have limited power - because I know I might be wrong (as not 100% right) I make better decisions if I sometimes fail. Just enough freedom is what we need. Ian > > Best, > Steve > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
