>> Steve: >> Perhaps. Would you agree if I had added the term "somewhat" before >> "unpredictable"? The point is that adding more unpredictability >> doesn't give us more freedom. Quite the opposite. >> > [IG] It's "a" point - but if it is "the" point for you it's utterly trivial.
Steve: You are the one who chose that point to jump into this conversation between dmb and I. dmb had been defending a James scholar's claim that indeterminism is a necessary first stage in asserting free will. I was saying that I can't see how indeterminism (as unpredictability) helps someone assert free will. Do you have something to say on that issue? What is _your_ point? >> Ian: >> > It's just honest to recognise that our will is subject to chance too >> >> Steve: >> The issue isn't whether or not it is true or "honest." What I am >> objecting to is the notion that unpredictability is the thing that is >> needed for freedom. >> > > [IG] Again it's not all or nothing it's not "the" thing needed for freedom, > but adding chance and unpredictability to some rigid kind of determinism, > gives us more room to manoevre. Clearly too much unpredictability and our > influence diminishes again. Steve: How does unpredictability give us influence? Our actions are only meaningfully influential if the consequences are somewhat predictable and the less predictable they are the less influence we can be thought of as having. Ian: > Some of the perceived "unpredictability" is the effect of patterns at play > in the level in which we are currently applying our beloved "logic". The > real error banging heads between determinism and free-will is failing to > recognizing that they proceed in different levels - hence are perfectly > compatible. dmb: You are such an unbelievable hack. If you want to assert freedom, you have to deny determinism. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
