Greetings Marsha, > Greetings Matt, > > > > > Greetings Marsha, > > > >> Greetings Matt, > >> > >> On Oct 26, 2011, at 5:50 PM, Matt Kundert wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello Marsha, > >>> > >>> Sorry about my joke--I'd sent the response post before reading your > >>> catch of the mistake. (And it hardly needs apologizing for--we all > >>> make trivial mistakes like that.) > >>> > snip... > >> > >> I think you have misstated that a _couple of times_ recently I invoked, to > >> you, an "Absolute" And, of course, I did not capitalize the absolute. > > > > Matt: > > No, I don't think I did misstate that. I'm counting our exchange > > earlier this month in "Taking Words Seriously," which at one point > > you said, "If you would like to present standards by which an > > argument is ultimately judged good or bad and why RMP presented > > a bad argument, please do so" (Oct. 17). This is the same gesture > > I find weird. > > > > That is the only one I can directly evidence, though I feel like we've > > crossed this terrain before, which is the explanation for my vague > > "second or third." And no, you did not capitalize "Absolute." I did. > > Marsha: > I don't see Ultimate and "Absolute" as the same, and I would never > capitalize 'absolute.' I probably should totally drop the word 'absolute,' > but habits are sometimes hard to break. I understand from your > point-of-view RMP has presented a bad argument and may seem a > less then adequate scholar.
Matt: I'd hate to be misunderstood, but I don't think Pirsig's a "less than adequate scholar." He's "adequate" at least--but he's not a scholar, principally because he never wanted to be. I doubt if one asked him he'd say that he is. He's a philosopher, he'd say. Which is great. I read scholars for their scholarship, and philosophers for their philosophy. But if either side tries to do what the other does, why shouldn't we judge them according to what it is they're trying to do? And I accept that _as a scholar_ you give Pirsig a higher rating than I would. But I don't see why your mode of expressing this fact includes making it sound like I'm trashing Pirsig. That's annoying at least. > > >>> Matt: > >>> You wondered earlier about what it is I'm trying to grasp, and > >>> whether I even know, but how about this as an answer: I'm trying to > >>> grasp the inner workings of my own thought-processes while at the > >>> same time trying to see how they fit other people's. That's a way of > >>> describing philosophical conversation. What's mind-boggling to me > >>> about conversing with you is that sometimes it seems like you're just > >>> trying to flout being pinned down as thinking X or Y. Like, every time > >>> someone tries to approach your thinking in order to understand it, in > >>> fact. It's as if you interpret these communicative approaches as > >>> attempts to dominate you, but sometimes that's just not what's > >>> going on. > >> > >> Since you have not asked a clear and concise question, but seem > >> satisfied with your vague projections, I find no way to clearly respond. > >> > >> Thanks for writing. > > > > Matt: > > No, thank you for trying. Part of my vague projecting is that your > > philosophical identity is, to me, a vague mist, even after all these > > years, and that every time I try and get a clear picture of what you > > think, and show that picture to you, you snap at me. So, all there is > > to do is mistily describe a mist. You can't capture a mist after all: it > > disappears when you try. But, I have to admit that part of the onus > > must be on me at failing to develop a picture you won't snap at me > > for. > > Marsha: > Much of my understanding comes from practices that you dismiss: > mediation, mindfulness and three brief encounters of the unpatterned > kind. Matt: I didn't know I "dismissed" those things. I'm not sure what you precisely mean by them, but I'm also not sure when and how I did the thing that makes you say that (even implicitly). Marsha: > If you want an explanation, I might say philosophically I'm a radical > skeptic and a negative empiricist, I mean just that: not this, not that. > Reality > to me is Quality(Dynamic/static). That seems very straight forward. Matt: Okay, for you. I don't find the labels straightforward, but I find myself to be straightforward sometimes when other people don't, so I understand the feeling. Marsha: > I don't snap with anger, more with a strange sense of humor. Matt: Fair enough. > > Matt: > > And that's a hell of a lot more than anyone else will admit to you, > > even though the frustration of talking to you I think is wider felt > > than just by me. > > Marsha: > I appreciate that you try, and your being honest. My expression > might be different but it is true to my experience. Matt: Fair enough. Mine, too. Sometimes, I guess...what if I put it to you this way: sometimes it feels like when you're trying to clear out a space for your experience, it feels like you're denigrating my experience. And I know that comes from your sense that people often try denigrating your experience (I get this sense from watching you over the years, particularly with what I'd call your feminism in a still masculinist philosophical culture). But I can't figure why you'd stand for denigrating mine, because I can't believe you'd go in for a revenge-attitude. And I don't want to denigrate your experience, but I've failed to figure out how to communicate my experience to you without setting off those trip-wires. I only want to toy with concepts. Is there a way of doing the latter without mucking with the former (denigrating one's experience)? > > Matt: > > And yet, I'm never compensated by better > > communicative channels by such "we're all in this together > > sentiments." > > Marsha: > I think maybe that mediation/mindfulness issue puts us in very > different positions. Matt: Maybe. I really couldn't say. I have no responsible sense. > > Matt: > > I feel these sentiments sincerely, that communication > > is a boat every person _has_ to help steer. But eventually we all > > make that personal choice to ditch the boat we're on and seek other > > ones. > > Marsha: > Okay... Matt: Alright... Matt Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
