[Dan] Rather, in the MOQ experience is primary while subject and objects, patterns of value, memories, and everything else is secondary. Dynamic Quality and experience become synonymous within the MOQ.
[Arlo] Right. And well stated, Dan. This is about as fundamental a statement one can make about Pirsig's metaphysics. Its about one of the deepest roots in the MOQ there is, and if you don't start with these roots, then you're not arguing about particular leaves, you are in a different tree entirely. [Krimel] The problem is this fundamental statement leads to mystification and mysticism because it is left hanging as some sort of mystery. It is not mysterious or in the least unfathomable. [Arlo] Of course 'experience' isn't mysterious or unfathomable, and I don't see how this statement 'leads to' that conclusion. If you're saying that it its worthy of elaboration, well sure, that's what the MOQ's trunk and leaves are, an elaboration of the roots. [Krimel] Within the MoQ experience equates with Quality. [Arlo] You're conflating the terminology of ZMM and LILA. Remember that in LILA, the "Quality" of ZMM is "Dynamic Quality". [Krimel] As DM has suggested SQ is also experienced as reverberations of the past echoing in the present. [Arlo] Static quality is what emerges from the moment of experience. You're statement here is, as Dan pointed out, very laden with S/O thinking. It basically turns SQ into "objects" and then says "we" experience these "objects". We do not experience objects, subjects and objects emerge FROM experience. In the immediate moment of experience, that pre-intellectual moment of awareness, there are no subjects and no objects, "we" do not experience "stuff", both "we" AND "stuff" emerge from the experience. Quality FIRST. Subjects and objects SECOND. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
