Ant said Feb 24th 2013:
> Before you study Zen, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers;
> [the static viewpoint of the MOQ as found in ZMM and LILA]
>
> While you are studying Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and rivers are
> no longer rivers;
>
[the Dynamic viewpoint of the MOQ as found in "LILA's Child" and the
McWatt-Pirsig PhD correspondence. This is the "World of the Buddhas"
viewpoint you were asking about]
>
> But once you have had enlightenment mountains are once again mountains and
> rivers again rivers.
> [the static-Dynamic viewpoint of the MOQ found in McWatt-Pirsig PhD
> correspondence; further explanation of this "dual"
> perspective is given by Paul Turner in his Tetralemma article at:
> http://robertpirsig.org/Tetralemma.htm].
Ron interjected Feb 24th 2013:
That is where it would seem that the emphasis lay, Paul Turner said:
"The positive import of the two truths is that whilst it is stated that
nothing is inherently real, i.e., nothing exists by virtue of its own
independent essence, the familiar everyday world is, nonetheless,
conventionally real and exists in a way which does not contradict
experience. "
I would ask, to an empiricist, one that holds experience as reality, that
"ultimate truth" is an abstraction, a symbol with no corresponding experience.
Therefore an empiricist asks what value does it hold? what has more meaning?
What is it's good?
Ant comments:
Well Ron, as an empiricist, I'd say that the Dynamic viewpoint of the MOQ (that
relates to the second, "ultimate truth" of Buddhism's "Two Truths") reminds us
that all static things are impermanent, inter-connected and dependent on the
Dynamic.
Careful observation of the universe shows this view is just as valid (i.e.
useful) as the first "conventional" truth of Buddhism that perceives static
things as (seemingly) permanent and independent. In other words, as Arlo
implied in his recent posts, static patterns (such as the bodywork and wheels
of a motorcycle) are stable and long lasting enough to be useful to a
motorcyclist without requiring maintenance everyday. However, if this
motorcyclist ignores the second "ultimate truth" of Buddhism, she or he will
soon be stranded in the middle of no where with a 'cycle without any gas!
Best wishes,
Ant
.
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org/md/archives.html
