Hello Joe, Ahh yes, mom, apple pie, critical thinking and truth, a metaphysics of the obvious!
Marsha On Mar 16, 2013, at 9:12 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi MarshaV and All, > > > On 3/16/13 2:01 AM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Mar 15, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Marsha, >>> >>> If dynamic quality, reality, is unknowable why use the term? >> >> Are you asking why RMP used language to explain the Metaphysics of Quality? > > Hi Marsha > > I guess I am stuck in questioning logic! I do not know how to logical > express the unknowable. Perhaps through analogy, metaphor, gesture. > >> >> >>> There is a broad spectrum of the knowable. What is unknowable describing? >> >> Since you think it is Dynamic Quality is knowable, you describe it? > > There is a difference between the indefinable and the unknowable. I may not > be able to use defined words to describe an unknowable, but I can use > gesture, analogy, metaphor to achieve some meaning of indefinable reality. >> >> >>> Limits of reality or limits of knowledge? >> >> What are you referring to and in what context? > > In Moq metaphysics knowledge is communicated through analogy, metaphor, > gesture for DQ as well as words and definitions of SQ. > >> >>> To discuss unknowable reality seems futile. >> >> Okay. >> >> >>> Supposing there is a broad spectrum to the unknowable, how can we discover >>> it? >> >> To say the unknowable is a 'broad spectrum' seems to be assuming too much. > Metaphysics accepts the indefinable. Music, gesture, analogy, metaphor etc. > are some ways to make myself understood. >> >>> It seems to me discussion and unknowable are at odds unless you accept that >>> indefinable and unknowable are synonymous. >> >> This might be one way to think about indefinable and unknowable. >> >> >>> DQ is indefinable. IMHO Unknowable reality stretches the discussion of DQ >>> metaphysics to a leap of Faith. >> >> It's a 'leap of faith' that when I wake up in the morning, put my feet on the >> floor and stand up that I won't fall through the flooring. And? >> >> I was trying to open the door to Faith and Reason. > >>> I would rather tweak rationality into the experience of indefinable >>> DQ in consciousness rather than accept indefinable DQ as a leap of faith. >> >> In considering a metaphysics - the nature of reality - I would prefer to dig >> deep rather than settle for tweaking rationality. I might consider that >> "tweaking rationality" is best handled by holding static patterns of value as >> hypothetical (supposed but not necessarily real or true). >> >> >> Marsha > > I don't want to abandon truth either! > >> Joe >> >>> >>> On 3/14/13 4:07 PM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Greetings Joe, >>>> >>>> I am perfectly satisfied with understanding the MoQ designating Reality = >>>> Value(Dynamic(indivisible, undefinable and unknowable)/static(divisible, >>>> definable and knowable)) :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 14, 2013, at 4:10 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi MarshaV, >>>>> >>>>> I am too old (80 plus) to remember philosophy. I want to jump immediately >>>>> to an indefinable as the limit on an aging process. DQ is indefinable, >>>>> always new, so to speak, and I am alive! >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/13/13 11:30 PM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Joe, >>>>>> >>>>>> I wondered if you might agree with Nietzsche? >>>>>> >>>>>> "Compared with music all communication by words is shameless; words >>>>>> dilute >>>>>> and brutalize; words depersonalize; words make uncommon common." >>>>>> (Nietzsche, Friedrich, 'Will To Power') >>>>>> >>>>>> re fa la >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Marsha >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi MarshaV, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> IMHO How to describe a theory of knowledge in DQ/SQ experience? DQ, >>>>>>> indefinable self-consciousness along with definable SQ structure, >>>>>>> enables >>>>>>> self-directed activity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> SQ, defined reality, places the limit of definition on an indefinable DQ >>>>>>> emotional self-consciousness. Definitions aid communication. Music is >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> more immediate less structured communication in its emotional origins. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is logic? The Intellect and freewill of activity are tied to a >>>>>>> common >>>>>>> limit, self-awareness. I can't jump on my horse and ride off in all >>>>>>> directions. Logic describes limits on knowledge in the structure of >>>>>>> self >>>>>>> awareness DQ/SQ. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Music is an harmonious structure, more revealing in some ways in being >>>>>>> less >>>>>>> subject to SQ discipline than logic. Music evokes more intensity in its >>>>>>> indefinable emotional origins than intellectual logic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/13/13 12:40 AM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Schopenhauer believed that the mediations of art in general, but >>>>>>>> particularly >>>>>>>> music, were more directly able to reveal the nature of reality than was >>>>>>>> philosophy. >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
