Joe, No pejorative there on my part.
Marsha On Mar 17, 2013, at 3:54 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi MarshaV and All, > > You use "metaphysics of the obvious" as pejorative logic. Metaphysics is > not vacuous. I see a limit to mathematical logic. I prefer dialogue to > numbers. > > In the theory of knowledge I find no place for abstraction. Direct > experience of hierarchical existence reveals limits to conceptualization. > > I accept reality as levels in existence, evolution. I am in favor of a > concept of hierarchical evolutionary reality through limits to the > hierarchical structure. I can't jump on my horse and ride off in all > directions. > > My metaphysical education was the study of SOM. DQ/SQ is more readily > understood as indefinable individuality, definable reality than > subject/object division. DQ the indefinable manifests in evolution in > existence of indefinable/definable reality. > > Joe > > > > > On 3/17/13 12:12 AM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Hello Joe, >> >> Ahh yes, mom, apple pie, critical thinking and truth, a metaphysics of the >> obvious! >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> On Mar 16, 2013, at 9:12 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi MarshaV and All, >>> >>> >>> On 3/16/13 2:01 AM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 15, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Marsha, >>>>> >>>>> If dynamic quality, reality, is unknowable why use the term? >>>> >>>> Are you asking why RMP used language to explain the Metaphysics of Quality? >>> >>> Hi Marsha >>> >>> I guess I am stuck in questioning logic! I do not know how to logical >>> express the unknowable. Perhaps through analogy, metaphor, gesture. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> There is a broad spectrum of the knowable. What is unknowable describing? >>>> >>>> Since you think it is Dynamic Quality is knowable, you describe it? >>> >>> There is a difference between the indefinable and the unknowable. I may not >>> be able to use defined words to describe an unknowable, but I can use >>> gesture, analogy, metaphor to achieve some meaning of indefinable reality. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Limits of reality or limits of knowledge? >>>> >>>> What are you referring to and in what context? >>> >>> In Moq metaphysics knowledge is communicated through analogy, metaphor, >>> gesture for DQ as well as words and definitions of SQ. >>> >>>> >>>>> To discuss unknowable reality seems futile. >>>> >>>> Okay. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Supposing there is a broad spectrum to the unknowable, how can we discover >>>>> it? >>>> >>>> To say the unknowable is a 'broad spectrum' seems to be assuming too much. >>> Metaphysics accepts the indefinable. Music, gesture, analogy, metaphor etc. >>> are some ways to make myself understood. >>>> >>>>> It seems to me discussion and unknowable are at odds unless you accept >>>>> that >>>>> indefinable and unknowable are synonymous. >>>> >>>> This might be one way to think about indefinable and unknowable. >>>> >>>> >>>>> DQ is indefinable. IMHO Unknowable reality stretches the discussion of DQ >>>>> metaphysics to a leap of Faith. >>>> >>>> It's a 'leap of faith' that when I wake up in the morning, put my feet on >>>> the >>>> floor and stand up that I won't fall through the flooring. And? >>>> >>>> I was trying to open the door to Faith and Reason. >>> >>>>> I would rather tweak rationality into the experience of indefinable >>>>> DQ in consciousness rather than accept indefinable DQ as a leap of faith. >>>> >>>> In considering a metaphysics - the nature of reality - I would prefer to >>>> dig >>>> deep rather than settle for tweaking rationality. I might consider that >>>> "tweaking rationality" is best handled by holding static patterns of value >>>> as >>>> hypothetical (supposed but not necessarily real or true). >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>> >>> I don't want to abandon truth either! >>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/14/13 4:07 PM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Greetings Joe, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am perfectly satisfied with understanding the MoQ designating Reality = >>>>>> Value(Dynamic(indivisible, undefinable and unknowable)/static(divisible, >>>>>> definable and knowable)) :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Marsha >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 14, 2013, at 4:10 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi MarshaV, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am too old (80 plus) to remember philosophy. I want to jump >>>>>>> immediately >>>>>>> to an indefinable as the limit on an aging process. DQ is indefinable, >>>>>>> always new, so to speak, and I am alive! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/13/13 11:30 PM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Joe, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wondered if you might agree with Nietzsche? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Compared with music all communication by words is shameless; words >>>>>>>> dilute >>>>>>>> and brutalize; words depersonalize; words make uncommon common." >>>>>>>> (Nietzsche, Friedrich, 'Will To Power') >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> re fa la >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi MarshaV, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> IMHO How to describe a theory of knowledge in DQ/SQ experience? DQ, >>>>>>>>> indefinable self-consciousness along with definable SQ structure, >>>>>>>>> enables >>>>>>>>> self-directed activity. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> SQ, defined reality, places the limit of definition on an indefinable >>>>>>>>> DQ >>>>>>>>> emotional self-consciousness. Definitions aid communication. Music >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> more immediate less structured communication in its emotional origins. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What is logic? The Intellect and freewill of activity are tied to a >>>>>>>>> common >>>>>>>>> limit, self-awareness. I can't jump on my horse and ride off in all >>>>>>>>> directions. Logic describes limits on knowledge in the structure of >>>>>>>>> self >>>>>>>>> awareness DQ/SQ. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Music is an harmonious structure, more revealing in some ways in being >>>>>>>>> less >>>>>>>>> subject to SQ discipline than logic. Music evokes more intensity in >>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>> indefinable emotional origins than intellectual logic. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/13/13 12:40 AM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Schopenhauer believed that the mediations of art in general, but >>>>>>>>>> particularly >>>>>>>>>> music, were more directly able to reveal the nature of reality than >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> philosophy. >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
