Hi MarshaV and All, You use "metaphysics of the obvious" as pejorative logic. Metaphysics is not vacuous. I see a limit to mathematical logic. I prefer dialogue to numbers.
In the theory of knowledge I find no place for abstraction. Direct experience of hierarchical existence reveals limits to conceptualization. I accept reality as levels in existence, evolution. I am in favor of a concept of hierarchical evolutionary reality through limits to the hierarchical structure. I can't jump on my horse and ride off in all directions. My metaphysical education was the study of SOM. DQ/SQ is more readily understood as indefinable individuality, definable reality than subject/object division. DQ the indefinable manifests in evolution in existence of indefinable/definable reality. Joe On 3/17/13 12:12 AM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello Joe, > > Ahh yes, mom, apple pie, critical thinking and truth, a metaphysics of the > obvious! > > > Marsha > > > On Mar 16, 2013, at 9:12 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi MarshaV and All, >> >> >> On 3/16/13 2:01 AM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 15, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Marsha, >>>> >>>> If dynamic quality, reality, is unknowable why use the term? >>> >>> Are you asking why RMP used language to explain the Metaphysics of Quality? >> >> Hi Marsha >> >> I guess I am stuck in questioning logic! I do not know how to logical >> express the unknowable. Perhaps through analogy, metaphor, gesture. >> >>> >>> >>>> There is a broad spectrum of the knowable. What is unknowable describing? >>> >>> Since you think it is Dynamic Quality is knowable, you describe it? >> >> There is a difference between the indefinable and the unknowable. I may not >> be able to use defined words to describe an unknowable, but I can use >> gesture, analogy, metaphor to achieve some meaning of indefinable reality. >>> >>> >>>> Limits of reality or limits of knowledge? >>> >>> What are you referring to and in what context? >> >> In Moq metaphysics knowledge is communicated through analogy, metaphor, >> gesture for DQ as well as words and definitions of SQ. >> >>> >>>> To discuss unknowable reality seems futile. >>> >>> Okay. >>> >>> >>>> Supposing there is a broad spectrum to the unknowable, how can we discover >>>> it? >>> >>> To say the unknowable is a 'broad spectrum' seems to be assuming too much. >> Metaphysics accepts the indefinable. Music, gesture, analogy, metaphor etc. >> are some ways to make myself understood. >>> >>>> It seems to me discussion and unknowable are at odds unless you accept that >>>> indefinable and unknowable are synonymous. >>> >>> This might be one way to think about indefinable and unknowable. >>> >>> >>>> DQ is indefinable. IMHO Unknowable reality stretches the discussion of DQ >>>> metaphysics to a leap of Faith. >>> >>> It's a 'leap of faith' that when I wake up in the morning, put my feet on >>> the >>> floor and stand up that I won't fall through the flooring. And? >>> >>> I was trying to open the door to Faith and Reason. >> >>>> I would rather tweak rationality into the experience of indefinable >>>> DQ in consciousness rather than accept indefinable DQ as a leap of faith. >>> >>> In considering a metaphysics - the nature of reality - I would prefer to dig >>> deep rather than settle for tweaking rationality. I might consider that >>> "tweaking rationality" is best handled by holding static patterns of value >>> as >>> hypothetical (supposed but not necessarily real or true). >>> >>> >>> Marsha >> >> I don't want to abandon truth either! >> >>> Joe >>> >>>> >>>> On 3/14/13 4:07 PM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Greetings Joe, >>>>> >>>>> I am perfectly satisfied with understanding the MoQ designating Reality = >>>>> Value(Dynamic(indivisible, undefinable and unknowable)/static(divisible, >>>>> definable and knowable)) :-) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 14, 2013, at 4:10 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi MarshaV, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am too old (80 plus) to remember philosophy. I want to jump >>>>>> immediately >>>>>> to an indefinable as the limit on an aging process. DQ is indefinable, >>>>>> always new, so to speak, and I am alive! >>>>>> >>>>>> Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/13/13 11:30 PM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Joe, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wondered if you might agree with Nietzsche? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Compared with music all communication by words is shameless; words >>>>>>> dilute >>>>>>> and brutalize; words depersonalize; words make uncommon common." >>>>>>> (Nietzsche, Friedrich, 'Will To Power') >>>>>>> >>>>>>> re fa la >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi MarshaV, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> IMHO How to describe a theory of knowledge in DQ/SQ experience? DQ, >>>>>>>> indefinable self-consciousness along with definable SQ structure, >>>>>>>> enables >>>>>>>> self-directed activity. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> SQ, defined reality, places the limit of definition on an indefinable >>>>>>>> DQ >>>>>>>> emotional self-consciousness. Definitions aid communication. Music is >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> more immediate less structured communication in its emotional origins. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is logic? The Intellect and freewill of activity are tied to a >>>>>>>> common >>>>>>>> limit, self-awareness. I can't jump on my horse and ride off in all >>>>>>>> directions. Logic describes limits on knowledge in the structure of >>>>>>>> self >>>>>>>> awareness DQ/SQ. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Music is an harmonious structure, more revealing in some ways in being >>>>>>>> less >>>>>>>> subject to SQ discipline than logic. Music evokes more intensity in >>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>> indefinable emotional origins than intellectual logic. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/13/13 12:40 AM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Schopenhauer believed that the mediations of art in general, but >>>>>>>>> particularly >>>>>>>>> music, were more directly able to reveal the nature of reality than >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> philosophy. >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
