Ian said:
... And YES, in that level we are in some sense suspended in SOM language,
UNLESS we do that reaching out.
... Logically the SOMism vs MOQ-Intellect debate IS interminable - that's the
point. It is only broken by deliberate choice to reach out to expanded MoQish
rationality - one not dependent entirely on those mental constructs we call
subjects and objects.
dmb says:
The point is that the debate is interminable?!
I think that's exactly what Dan and I find to be so freaking frustrating. The
"debate" should have terminated a long time ago because Bo's "insight" is
nonsense. Pirsig thinks, "this conclusion undermines the MOQ," and that it
"sounds like a dismissal" and he sees "a lowering of the quality of the MOQ
itself if you follow this path."
What is debatable about that? How can any reasonable person maintain this
conclusion in the face of such direct and explicit evidence? I guess that's why
Bo has to take it "even to the point of claiming Robert Pirsig is wrong about
his own metaphysics," as Dan put it.
But we should also reject the "insight" that SOM and the MOQ's intellectual
level are one and the same because it doesn't make any sense. If that were
true, then it would be impossible to think in any other terms. It would be
impossible to oppose SOM with any other conceptions but that is exactly what
the MOQ does indeed. There is a mountain of evidence that many thinkers have
opposed SOM, some of which I've presented here already. Don't that prove that
SOM and intellect are NOT identical? I think so.
I think Dan nailed it. "What I find both sad and frustrating is that Robert
Pirsig has directly addressed these concerns and yet so many people continue to
find ways to ignore it. And no, I am not jumping on the 'pick on Marsha'
bandwagon in saying that though I do think her continued support of Bo's
'insight' tends to put her in a somewhat dubious light."
Motorcycle maintenance is a miniature study in the art of rationality. How
could Pirsig's project even be possible if SOM were one and the same with
intellect itself? The art of amoral objectivity? The meaningless, lifeless,
hollow voice of art? Bo's equation is a hellish trap in the very thing that
blinds the intellect to Quality. Ugh! It's the WORST idea ever.
Please, let the "debate" terminate permanently.
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