Andre said to John:
The Law is into a popularity contest? It appears to me that the more you
try to explain your position the messier it gets John.
To which John replied:
Heh. Well that's true of just about any intellectual exercise Andre.
It's the corollary of the Pirsigian postulate: the more you know
anything about a given phenomenon the more hypothesis occur to you.
Andre:
It's part of the defect called SOM John. Your wholehearted support is a
dead giveaway of where you are operating from.
John:
You believe people dance from a sense of justice?
Andre:
You give me the impression that you are deliberately misreading and
ridiculing me John. I thank dmb for praising me for my patience but I'm
afraid I am running out of it. This sort of reply to me making a point
about inter level conflict is almost insulting. The MoQ does not
support this idea.
John:
I think the most helpful way to view it is in terms of SQ and DQ.
Intellect is DQ to society's SQ.
Andre:
You're getting very close to blowing it John. This is the most
ridiculous statement you've made thus far and you are doing your best to
trump the previous one. Put simply: the MoQ does not support this idea.
John:
Hmm. I don't know if I can go with calling Justice, intellectual either.
Fairness seems to be a feeling beyond intellect.
Andre:
You've blown it John. This is even more ridiculous than the one
mentioned above. Are you in the contest of prime celebrity nut as far as
your understanding of the MoQ goes? Put simply: the MoQ does not support
this idea.
John quoted Pirsig:
"f you compare the levels of static patterns that compose a human being
to the ecology of a forest, and if you see the different patterns
sometimes in competition with each other, sometimes in symbiotic support
of each other,...
Andre:
Notice that Pirsig uses the analogy of the forest John? Inorganic and
biological patterns of value. Competing and sometimes in symbiosis. See
what you make of it:
John: I think competition is a purely social thing.
Andre:
Read your own quote again and again John. Pirsig uses the expression
COMPETITION when talking about inorganic and organic patterns of value! In
other words the MoQ does not support your idea.
John:
Life and death are not in competition...In order for life to thrive it needs
more life. Life doesn't compete and put down, it supports and builds up.
Andre:
The MoQ does not support your ideas John and as you know, we are not discussing
your MoQ but Pirsig's simply because Pirsig's is very high intellectual
quality. Yours isn't.
John:
I believe personalizing values is the most important task at hand. I'm trying
to illustrate my
ideas with concrete examples. I fail to see how that's some kind problem for
you.
Andre:
You too easily fall into the trap, as discussed in ZMM, that value either
exists in the subject or the object. This is an instance of SOM thinking.
Values are NOT in the person. They are NOT in the object either. Values make up
the person. The MoQ 'transcends' SOM and you fail to do just that. That's the
problem.
John:
He who personalizes values also values personality. And I do.
Andre:
Yes, I know and that's the problem John. The MoQ does not support your ideas.
If you ask me why I will suggest you read ZMM and LILA again...which will send
Ian's eyes rolling once again.
John:
I said I'd scream if you said something along the lines of "you obviously don't
understand the MoQ"
...
Andre:
I'm sorry John but these sets of responses you gave make me conclude that you
obviously don't understand the MoQ. This will not satisfy your ego but we all
know that, when it comes right down to it, the ego is just a figment of one's
imagination. So don't take my comments personally John, I'm sure you have a
lovely personality.
I cannot think of anything to gain from further discussion for either of us
John. All the best.
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