Cheers for that Jan. It's really heartening to read that someone somewhere has made careful and constructive use of the various MOQ texts and papers out there especially that 1999 paper that I co-wrote with Eric Priezkalns (which is rarely mentioned). Strangely enough, I was just speaking to Eric recently (after about a gap of a couple of years). He "officially" gave up philosophy a few years ago but I am encouraging to return to it even in an informal way. It would be great if I could convince him to write another philosophy paper but We will see!
http://robertpirsig.org/Evolution.htm Eric also has a blog which (thoough not related directly to the MOQ) has many interesting insights of his over the years. This can be found here: http://halfthoughts.com Eric (also a mathematician) was probably the most gifted individual (intellectually) that I met at the Liverpool Philosphy Dept. and has recently retired in his mid forties! Otherwise, I better say that I completely re-wrote our 1999 paper as an addendum for my PhD so - especially as I only "nailed down the concepts of change and space-time in my own mind by the time the PhD was finalised in 2004 - it's probably better for the "average" MOQer to use that as this "Step Zero" that you and Arlo have been discussing recently! The addendum can be downloaded for free at: http://robertpirsig.org/MOQTime.htm Best wishes, as ever, Ant ----------------------------------------- Jan Anders stated July 7th 2014: Thanks Arlo for this summary. I think its now time for discussing step two. The second step in the intellectual journey up the levels. Inability to understand the levels causes a lot of confusion here. We all know that the rules for participation in this forum is at least that you have read ZMM AND LILA. Reading, however but not surprisingly, does not guarantee an understanding of the same. (You see what you see and measure your mate with your own wit that is close to your own mind while his is at a distance.) The starting point of this discussion is ANTHONY MCWATT of Liverpool University, & ERIC PRIEZKALNS's excellent little essay called "Evolution, Time and order" (full name: The Role of Evolution, Time and Order in Robert Pirsig's "Metaphysics of Quality"). Step number zero is the one about change. The first step into the inorganic existence was the very first change, which demarked the first occurence of time. I call i step zero as it comes from just nowhere, the mystic area of Q. "The MOQ starts with the source of undifferentiated perception itself as the ultimate reality. The very first differentiation is probably `change`. The second one may be `before and after`. From this sense of `before and after` emerge more complex concepts of time." (letter from ROBERT M. PIRSIG to Anthony McWatt, February 23rd, 1998) This was discussed here a while ago in a thread called "step one" which eventually concluded in some kind of common agreement that step one (from the inorganic into the organic level) was by the first succesful reproduction of an organism. Reproduction is the solution to the problem with complicated inorganic patterns depletion by age. Reproduction saves the orginal pattern before it loses its art. Inorganic patterns does not have to reproduce themselves as they are so stable "constructions" already. Now, what about step two? In Lila we can read that it is something about how the reproduction change from direct selfcopying into the superior schem called sexual reproduction which results in different copies that fit together in a social organisation that is superior to pure biological patterns. The social patterns are controlling and using the biological patterns, are dependant of biological patterns but social patterns are using biological structures for its own purpose. "the shift in cell reproduction from mitosis to meiosis to permit sexual choice and allow huge DNA diversification is a Dynamic advance. So is the collective organization of cells into metazoan societies called plants and animals. So are sexual choice, symbiosis, death and regeneration, communality, communication, speculative thought, curiosity and art. Most of these, when viewed in a substance-centered evolutionary way are thought of as mere incidental properties of the molecular machine. But in a value-centered explanation of evolution they are close to the Dynamic process itself, pulling the pattern of life forward to greater levels of versatility and freedom." (Quoted from LILA, Chapter 11) I think its very important to have a clear understanding of this. (Prepare for using the slow parts of your brain. When you get it, you're automatically qualified for a free trip to the Chronosynclastic Infundibulum by Prometheus-5. Look! No drugs! Dreams and fantasies only!) When we have done step two clear we can go on to the next step: step three. The understanding of the evolutionary step from the social level into the intellectual level. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
