Hello Gerhard, everyone
my reply involves Gerhards preious post but my reply is not addressed to him
specifically,
So why are all these violent gun-lovers and Libertarians that will drag the
humans down to a biological level here.
I'm not aware of any posts where anybody explicitly states tthat they're
"violent gun-lovers" and Libertarianism is another label that is
insufficient to reflect all a persons views ( as all "labels" are generally
insufficient).
One thing that bugs me about the MOQ (RE: RMP in his letter to Bodvar
states:
I think the MOQ would classify emotions as mere biological responses to
value, not value itself.)
is why the MOQ gives no footnotes to any research that can verify its
claims to such assertions, an emotion is a complicated experience based on
several factors and if emotions are seemed a problen in the MOQ then they
should be looked at more carefully.
Horse wrote:
>Most of the problems that arise in this respect are from superimposing the
MoQ
>over a set of already held beliefs. Once you let go of your old beliefs and
start afresh
>from a Quality foundation and apply an evolutionary morality the majority
of
>problems dissolve.
There are several assumptions running here,
One of the biggest problems with the MOQ as laid out in LILA is that it is
a novel, a great novel we all get a lot out of, but the continuity breaks in
reasoning make for an ambiguous metaphysics (see vegetarianism thread). if
it where re-edited as a MOQ without the character development parts (which
could be annotated) it would be easier to refer to in these discussions. i
have read a few posts that state that "things became clearer eventually
after several readings" but there must be a logical way to prove a MOQ point
without having to throw in points like "we were warned not to blindly accept
scientific viewpoints",who does? Whats being blindly accepted. Whats
ambiguous about nutrients and their sources? where are the significant
pertinent incontrovertible facts and reasoning behind the MoQ (I'm thinking
now anout the 4 level quality hierarchy, superimposing another hierarchy on
reality doesn't smell right, it explains a lot of things but leaves an
impasse depending on "whether you're a gun-lover or libertarian".
-----Original Message-----
From: Gerhard Ersdal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 05 July 2001 10:17
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: MD Pirsig's hypocrisy
Hi Horse and others,
I'm probably accusing the MoQ for being "Emotivism in disguise", as Struan
Hellier called it. That would explain all these Libertarians here, which
surprised me at first.
But this has off course been up for debate earlier, and I will read the
e-mails from march 1998 and Lila's Child (thanks Dan for getting it back on
the web).
>From Bodvar's Quality Event:
"It must be understood that Intellect cannot destroy Society as such. The
danger is that never ending demands of freedom and rights may make the
Western societies unmanageable, which in turn will raise demands for "strong
men" and a return to more social orientated constitutions such as religious
fundamentalism or fascism. At the present, warning signals are blaring and
flashing, but overlooked. Freedom and rights are good so it is assumed that
more must be better. All blame is on Society, it is unjust, law enforcement
is bad and should be abolished, and when crime turns even worse, it is
because the freedom measurements weren't radical enough."
This, to me, clearly states the same fear of Emotivism as I have. You could
say that me and Bodvar, both being Norwegian, have the same emotional
background for selecting right from wrong, but I believe and hope that
Bodvar is clinging to the MoQ for better reasons than that.
So why are all these violent gun-lovers and Libertarians that will drag the
humans down to a biological level here.
RMP in his letter to Bodvar states:
I think the MOQ would classify emotions as mere biological responses to
value, not value itself.
YES! So these Libertarians ARE just confusing me, they are talking about
emotions - quality at a biological level, and not value itself. I guess
nobody is going to agree with me on this conclusion.
Horse wrote:
>Most of the problems that arise in this respect are from superimposing the
MoQ
>over a set of already held beliefs. Once you let go of your old beliefs and
start afresh
>from a Quality foundation and apply an evolutionary morality the majority
of
>problems dissolve.
You are probably right, but if I end up as a violent, gun-loving
Libertarian, I rather stick to my old beliefs.
It's close to 30? Celsius here in Norway today, which is very unusual. I'll
print a copy of Lila's Child, Chapter 14, order Alasdair MacIntyre "After
Virtue" from a bookstore - (claimed to give an good explanation for why
Libertarians will undermine society and morals and hence take the world down
to a biological level), and head for the beach.
Gerhard
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