Case I'll drop the Jesus issue, just some comments.
On 25 Mar. you wrote: > [Bo] > Yes, this is well known, but I apply the MOQ and as usual it sheds a > new and revealing light on history ... as it does on our own times. > [Case] > Agreed. Still wonder how you can agree as long as the MOQ rests on its level system and you don't see its purpose? > [Case] > It seems to me that by insisting that "intellect" only occurs with a > particular style of thinking, you narrow it down to something > insignificant in the large scheme of things. As said a couple of million times, the purpose of the upper level is to free existence of the lower level's constraints, thus intellect must have to do with subduing social values and all examples of intellectual patterns (provided by Pirsig) are of the "objective" kind thus intellect has very much to do with a style of thinking *) namely that which opposes social (subjective) thinking. I.e. intellect is the S/O distinction. *) No doubt you know this but it must be emphasized: It's part of intellect's strategy to call social value "subjective", in much the same way as the West has in its power to call other cultures "backward" or "developing". From the social level seen the subjective/objective distinction is not known/recognized or VALUED!! It looks like the discussion is dead tired of the intellectual issue and I have no idea what the current view is. Some time ago my so-called SOL(AQI) idea was raised (I was unsubscribed then) and I believed it was a renewed interest, but as soon as I reappeared people clammed up. So I would have liked to hear what your see as "intellect", but then you don't see any purpose in the levels at all ... phew! > [Case] > The Japanese were dealt their greatest humiliation when Commodore > Perry steamed into Tokyo in 1852. The realization that others were > masters of the planet and they were just backwater fisherman shocked > the Japanese. In less than 100 years they absorbed 2000 years of > western culture and spit it back in the face of the west. They went > from swords to Zeros in less then four generations. This is > unprecedented in human history. With their defeat of the Russians in > Manchuria in 1905 they may have been the only indigenous people to > have defeated a western power during the colonial period. Agree, but what makes the East capable of such great leaps forward, and what blocks the Middle East from doing the same, if not having to do with what Pirsig speaks of in the RT chapter. The Orientals have transcended the social level (which blocks the Middle East) but they went through the intellectual stage too quickly and ended up in some Quality-like "land" without any "MOQ" (with its level lay-out) to tell them where they are. They only has their "Zen" and "Tao" which are void of levels. Remember the inter-level struggle/alliance that you scoffed at? I think this applies in the Oriental case. In LILA Pirsig described the alliance between intellect and biology (to thwart social value) but this also indicates a budding MOQ-society alliance against intellect (this can be because there is a level aspect to the MOQ) This is dangerous and HAS developed in various Oriental cultures (for instance China's callous treatment of criminals) and in the MOQ we have the means to prevent it. IMO Bo. moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
