Anyway Platt, pragmatically, the nit-picking doesn't matter. The point is dealing with crime is about social authority (not intellectual reasoning) whether the specific crime is seen as biological or social.
Ian On 5/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Quoting ian glendinning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > Yes Platt, I know the words ... the problem is how narrowly you > > interpret their intended meaning - dumb (ergo) logic or enlightened > > reason. > > > > Where to start ? > > > > He's talking (in the first and third paras) about the paralysis of > > political correctness refusing to accept the biological nature of any > > crimes. I'm not doing that. I asserting that crimes of robbery can be > > largely social. > > > > I can accept that pretty well any crimes against the biological person > > are largely biological - the raping and murder (and any lesser crimes > > by white-trash or ethnic-thugs disrepecting the rights of human > > individuals) - but even there I'd have to qualify that with the motive > > - as any court of law would do in deciding sex was rape and killing > > was murder. > > > > Robbery in the grand scheme of things is often not (nay rarely) > > against the individual, but often against an institution. Clearly as I > > said above, the victims of biological crimes are individual humans. > > Some crimes are against society though. > > > > In any event I totally agree with (the second para) the right of > > society to enforce it's laws by force against biological (or social) > > crime. That's the point of static latching, it's pragmatically useful > > to enforce the law now and intellectually debate the philosophical > > values later, rather than fiddle whilst Rome burns. > > > > The fact that theft / robbery is a game or a psychological disorder > > for some, [as Krimel suggests] does not mean anyone is saying ALL > > crime is a socio-intellectual game. Only an idiot would suggest that > > anyone might suggest that. > > > > As usual you show us the sad limits of all or nothing logic. > > Ian > > (PS - excluded middles) > > You can nitpick and rationalize all you want, but Pirsig makes it clear: > robbery > is a biological crime. > > > Read Pirsig and learn: > > > > > > "Thus, throughout this century we have seen over and over again that > > intellectuals > > > weren't blaming crime on man's biological nature, but on the social > > > patterns > > that had > > > repressed this biological nature." > > > > > > "The idea that biological crimes can be ended by intellect alone, that > > > you can > > talk > > > crime to death, doesn't work. Intellectual patterns cannot directly > > > control > > > biological patterns. Only social patterns can control biological > > > patterns, and > > the > > > instrument of conversation between society and biology is not words. The > > instrument > > > of conversation between society and biology has always been a policeman > > > or a > > soldier > > > and his gun." > > > > > > "A second part of the paralysis probably came from the fact that the > > > criminals > > were > > > black. If it had been a group of trash whites moving into the > > > neighborhood, > > robbing > > > and raping and killing, the response would have been much fiercer, but > > > when > > whites > > > denounced blacks for robbing and raping and killing they left themselves > > > open to > > the > > > charge of racism." > > > > > > "What's coming out of the urban slums, where old Victorian social moral > > > codes > > are > > > almost completely destroyed, isn't any new paradise the revolutionaries > > > hoped > > for, > > > but a reversion to rule by terror, violence and gang death-the old > > > biological > > > might-makes-right morality of prehistoric brigandage that primitive > > > societies > > were > > > set up to overcome." > > > ------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
