Hi Ian/Platt Also a question about why most people do not commit crimes? Social norms, morals, lower risk ways to achieve ends, respect/ sympathy for others, recognising benefits of ownership rights.
David M ----- Original Message ----- From: "ian glendinning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 12:05 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Heads or tails? > Yes Platt, I know the words ... the problem is how narrowly you > interpret their intended meaning - dumb (ergo) logic or enlightened > reason. > > Where to start ? > > He's talking (in the first and third paras) about the paralysis of > political correctness refusing to accept the biological nature of any > crimes. I'm not doing that. I asserting that crimes of robbery can be > largely social. > > I can accept that pretty well any crimes against the biological person > are largely biological - the raping and murder (and any lesser crimes > by white-trash or ethnic-thugs disrepecting the rights of human > individuals) - but even there I'd have to qualify that with the motive > - as any court of law would do in deciding sex was rape and killing > was murder. > > Robbery in the grand scheme of things is often not (nay rarely) > against the individual, but often against an institution. Clearly as I > said above, the victims of biological crimes are individual humans. > Some crimes are against society though. > > In any event I totally agree with (the second para) the right of > society to enforce it's laws by force against biological (or social) > crime. That's the point of static latching, it's pragmatically useful > to enforce the law now and intellectually debate the philosophical > values later, rather than fiddle whilst Rome burns. > > The fact that theft / robbery is a game or a psychological disorder > for some, [as Krimel suggests] does not mean anyone is saying ALL > crime is a socio-intellectual game. Only an idiot would suggest that > anyone might suggest that. > > As usual you show us the sad limits of all or nothing logic. > Ian > (PS - excluded middles) > > On 5/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Quoting ian glendinning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> >> > > Robbery is a biological pattern. >> > > >> > >> > What !?! Nice try Platt to roll that into a passage of Pirsig's words, >> > but it precedes the quotation marks. (Nasty dishonest trick by the >> > way.) >> > >> > Anyway, robbery is social, presuming a society that has adopted the >> > concept of property rights. >> > >> > If a rat "robs" an egg from a bird's nest - that's biological, but the >> > word "rob" is chosen by a member of human society, not by the rat or >> > the bird. The rat is simply "taking" the egg in order to live. The rat >> > is the bad guy thanks to human metaphors only. >> > >> > Robbers in human society have a wide range of possible biological, >> > social and, dare I say, intellectual reasons to do so, but mostly >> > social. >> >> Crime is a biological pattern. Robbery is a crime. Ergo, robbery is a >> biological >> pattern. Read Pirsig and learn: >> >> "Thus, throughout this century we have seen over and over again that >> intellectuals >> weren't blaming crime on man's biological nature, but on the social >> patterns that had >> repressed this biological nature." >> >> "The idea that biological crimes can be ended by intellect alone, that >> you can talk >> crime to death, doesn't work. Intellectual patterns cannot directly >> control >> biological patterns. Only social patterns can control biological >> patterns, and the >> instrument of conversation between society and biology is not words. The >> instrument >> of conversation between society and biology has always been a policeman >> or a soldier >> and his gun." >> >> "A second part of the paralysis probably came from the fact that the >> criminals were >> black. If it had been a group of trash whites moving into the >> neighborhood, robbing >> and raping and killing, the response would have been much fiercer, but >> when whites >> denounced blacks for robbing and raping and killing they left themselves >> open to the >> charge of racism." >> >> "What's coming out of the urban slums, where old Victorian social moral >> codes are >> almost completely destroyed, isn't any new paradise the revolutionaries >> hoped for, >> but a reversion to rule by terror, violence and gang death-the old >> biological >> might-makes-right morality of prehistoric brigandage that primitive >> societies were >> set up to overcome." >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------- >> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ >> moq_discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
