Hi Ian Of course the settled agricultural tribes changed the roaming warriors on horse back by assimilation. Then we started calling them noble warrior aristocrats! Then we ditched the plough and took up trade wars. A historical story of the development of policeman, not exactly. As you're saying.
Carlie Marks ----- Original Message ----- From: "ian glendinning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Heads or tails? > Anyway Platt, pragmatically, the nit-picking doesn't matter. > > The point is dealing with crime is about social authority (not > intellectual reasoning) whether the specific crime is seen as > biological or social. > > Ian > > On 5/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Quoting ian glendinning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> >> > Yes Platt, I know the words ... the problem is how narrowly you >> > interpret their intended meaning - dumb (ergo) logic or enlightened >> > reason. >> > >> > Where to start ? >> > >> > He's talking (in the first and third paras) about the paralysis of >> > political correctness refusing to accept the biological nature of any >> > crimes. I'm not doing that. I asserting that crimes of robbery can be >> > largely social. >> > >> > I can accept that pretty well any crimes against the biological person >> > are largely biological - the raping and murder (and any lesser crimes >> > by white-trash or ethnic-thugs disrepecting the rights of human >> > individuals) - but even there I'd have to qualify that with the motive >> > - as any court of law would do in deciding sex was rape and killing >> > was murder. >> > >> > Robbery in the grand scheme of things is often not (nay rarely) >> > against the individual, but often against an institution. Clearly as I >> > said above, the victims of biological crimes are individual humans. >> > Some crimes are against society though. >> > >> > In any event I totally agree with (the second para) the right of >> > society to enforce it's laws by force against biological (or social) >> > crime. That's the point of static latching, it's pragmatically useful >> > to enforce the law now and intellectually debate the philosophical >> > values later, rather than fiddle whilst Rome burns. >> > >> > The fact that theft / robbery is a game or a psychological disorder >> > for some, [as Krimel suggests] does not mean anyone is saying ALL >> > crime is a socio-intellectual game. Only an idiot would suggest that >> > anyone might suggest that. >> > >> > As usual you show us the sad limits of all or nothing logic. >> > Ian >> > (PS - excluded middles) >> >> You can nitpick and rationalize all you want, but Pirsig makes it clear: >> robbery >> is a biological crime. >> >> >> Read Pirsig and learn: >> > > >> > > "Thus, throughout this century we have seen over and over again that >> > intellectuals >> > > weren't blaming crime on man's biological nature, but on the social >> > > patterns >> > that had >> > > repressed this biological nature." >> > > >> > > "The idea that biological crimes can be ended by intellect alone, >> > > that you can >> > talk >> > > crime to death, doesn't work. Intellectual patterns cannot directly >> > > control >> > > biological patterns. Only social patterns can control biological >> > > patterns, and >> > the >> > > instrument of conversation between society and biology is not words. >> > > The >> > instrument >> > > of conversation between society and biology has always been a >> > > policeman or a >> > soldier >> > > and his gun." >> > > >> > > "A second part of the paralysis probably came from the fact that the >> > > criminals >> > were >> > > black. If it had been a group of trash whites moving into the >> > > neighborhood, >> > robbing >> > > and raping and killing, the response would have been much fiercer, >> > > but when >> > whites >> > > denounced blacks for robbing and raping and killing they left >> > > themselves open to >> > the >> > > charge of racism." >> > > >> > > "What's coming out of the urban slums, where old Victorian social >> > > moral codes >> > are >> > > almost completely destroyed, isn't any new paradise the >> > > revolutionaries hoped >> > for, >> > > but a reversion to rule by terror, violence and gang death-the old >> > > biological >> > > might-makes-right morality of prehistoric brigandage that primitive >> > > societies >> > were >> > > set up to overcome." >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------- >> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ >> moq_discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
