i think we have the kernel now. the change i am talking of can only happen now, now, now. all we can do is will this change in ourselves and keep changing because we will be forever pulled back through others into the giant. to avoid this we must practice constant awareness, which is to live in the phenomenal now. and this is the transformation: to be in the present is to be free of the ego, which is the giant within us. so the 'when', for each of us who wish to be free, is now and always. the 'when' for this planet is not up to us.
--- ian glendinning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Gav, > > The key word in your first para is "when" (I might > say "if"). > > Everything else hangs from that ... I wouldn't argue > with the utopian > view (at all) ... it's just the "how" do we expect > to get there. Once > there, it could indeed be that simple ... > > However, until when and if we get there, I still > can't see the "nil > governance" option being practical, or any > significant chance of > getting there. Part of governance is surely to > preserve the freedoms > we value, from those who don't. > > So far we seem to agree the right kind of education > is at least part > of it. (80% of it I'd say - education, education, > education - hence my > support for the "friends of wisdom" campaign.) > > Anyway ... > Bye for now. > Ian > > On 7/18/07, gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > hey guys, > > thanks for the input. > > it is quite simple i think ian, what need is there > of > > 'governance', or 'counter-evolutionary protective > > measures', when communication is perfect and > everyone > > desires the same for themselves as for everyone > else: > > ie freedom and happiness. > > > > the only need i can see for explicit guidance is > in > > schooling. maybe this is where the governance is. > at > > school the individual is becoming whole, through > > education. i don't think this 'education' will > bear > > much similarity to what goes by that name today > > though. > > > > aldous huxley's final utopic novel, island, has a > lot > > on ideal schooling in it. ideal everythihng i > suppose. > > as a graduation ceremony (which is an initiation) > the > > students undergo a ritual where they all take a > sacred > > mushroom brew and go rock climbing together. this > puts > > each person's life in the hands of another (total > > trust), and forces each to confront their own > > mortality (essential to any initiation). > afterwards, > > still trippin, the students are ceremonially > debriefed > > and farewelled in a poignant process that > completes > > the transformation of the individual from child to > > adult. > > > > at the moment society rules. it rules through law > and > > force and its power is not understood or accepted > by > > most adults (eg who believes smokin pot should be > > illegal, or that you need to wait til 21 to > drink?). > > this breeds fragmentation, alienation. > > when society is transformed it will become a > living > > matrix - rather than law we will return to lore. > > rather than explicit compulsion we will have > implicit > > awareness. > > > > > > > > --- Heather Perella > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > [Ian] > > > > One large or many small communities, I can't > see > > > literall "nil > > > > governance" ever working. I really think we're > > > talking about agreeing > the minimum necessary > > > lightest-touch governance... it beomes a > > > > definitional matter of the word "governance". > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I've posted enough today. I would > like > > > to > > > leave on a more dynamic intellectual note, so... > I'm > > > glad you pin-down this 'governance', and brought > > > that > > > back up. I agree. It does depend on what kind > of > > > governance we mean. As the settlers moved west > > > across > > > the Northern American continent, chiefs were > picked > > > out by these settlers. They talked with those > that > > > talked back. Treaties were signed by some that > > > really > > > did not speak for the whole population. So, > even if > > > we pick out what governance means, as you asked > gav, > > > the strategies of the how's and what's, the > voice of > > > the people, will depend not only on the people, > but > > > on > > > those in different populations toying with their > own > > > agendas, as well. > > > > > > SA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready > > > for the edge of your seat? > > > Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. > > > http://tv.yahoo.com/ > > > moq_discuss mailing list > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > Archives: > > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo!7 Mail has just got even bigger and better > with unlimited storage on all webmail accounts. > > > http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html > > > > > > > > moq_discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo!7 Mail has just got even bigger and better with unlimited storage on all webmail accounts. http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
